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Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

nature.com

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Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#31

Post by AsylumWarden »

indiecore wrote: post #24
panzagl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, we should all lament the possible passing of another way of judging people inferior to us.

I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. "Gut bacteria are the cause, I can do nothing" "It's genetics" No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe they somehow pull more energy out of food than normal gut flora somehow, in the end it doesn't really m…

No, you are still wrong. I am morbidly obese and struggle with my weight daily. It will kill me in the end but I want to know what you would do when your metabolism is so low that your normal body temperature hangs at around 97.2F and resists being raised even by means of medications and heavy exercise. I'm sorry but when numerous doctors over 20 years all throw their hands up and say they can't help then there is nothing to be done. I admit, I could starve myself on something around 700 calories a day for the rest of my life but I would rather die; I think most would. I could hit the gym for 6 hours a day, likely with very little improvement, but I need to work to support myself and my family.

Finally, I get tired of arm chair nutritionists going off and telling people that it is all about eat less and exercise more. Obesity isn't a one solution fits all problem and it is only arrogance to think otherwise.

This article points out that there is yet another possibility to look into. Yet again, something that works against the old mantra eat less exercise more. We simply still don't know enough about the human body. There are going to be many more surprises for the obese population. In the mean time we have to combat our weight and jerks who think they know everything.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#32

Post by king_jester »

indiecore wrote: post #24
panzagl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, we should all lament the possible passing of another way of judging people inferior to us.

I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. "Gut bacteria are the cause, I can do nothing" "It's genetics" No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe they somehow pull more energy out of food than normal gut flora somehow, in the end it doesn't really m…

> I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up.

Being morbidly obese and healthy? Very unlikely to be true. Morbidly obese and ok with? That's 100% legit, it's your body and you are free to do as you please.

> No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe they somehow pull more energy out of food than normal gut flora somehow, in the end it doesn't really matter. Eat less, lose weight; eat more, gain weight; the definition of 'more' and 'less' are individual.

Except we already have strong evidence to suggest that calorie deficit diets do not have a causal relationship with weight loss and that those diets are hard to maintain over a long period of time, leading people to have yo-yo issues with their weight.

> I don't care if someone is fat.

When you call fat acceptance folks loons, I don't think you can say that with a straight face.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#33

Post by nlh »

debacle wrote: post #16

Someone made a comment yesterday on another site about how we are still living in the bacterial age. It's a strange notion, that bacteria still own the earth, but we are host to more bacteria than we are our own cells. It's such an interesting yet scary thing to think about - does higher order life exist solely as vessels for bacteria propagation?

Mind-bending, eh?

It's not too scary a though though -- taking the evolutionists point of view, there is no "underlying" reason that higher order life exists. It exists because the processes of natural selection have enabled it to exist and reproduce.

If bacteria contribute to the survival and reproduction of our species (they do), then they are simply part of the process. It goes both ways. We exist and reproduce because they help us do so, and they exist because we provide a nice host. One hand washes the other...

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#35

Post by patrickgzill »

It is interesting to consider that periodic fasts and/or abstaining from certain foods for a time (such as Lent during the Orthodox calendar), seen in many religions, might have a health benefit by suppressing certain gut bacteria, or at least managing gut flora.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#36

Post by patrickgzill »

AsylumWarden wrote: post #31
indiecore wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. "Gut bacteria are the cause, I can do nothing" "It's genetics" No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe they somehow pull more energy out of food than normal gut flora somehow, in the end it doesn't really m…

No, you are still wrong. I am morbidly obese and struggle with my weight daily. It will kill me in the end but I want to know what you would do when your metabolism is so low that your normal body temperature hangs at around 97.2F and resists being raised even by means of medications and heavy exercise. I'm sorry but when numerous doctors over 20 years all throw their hands up and say they can't help then there is no…

I am curious if you have experimented with the following:

1. increase iodine intake in some fashion

2. cut out all wheat products including whole grain

3. Atkins-style diet with restricted carbs in general

4. increased use of ginger as a spice or in tea (some believe it helps increase metabolic rate).

5. high intensity interval training (you mention exercise).

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#37

Post by indiecore »

AsylumWarden wrote: post #31
indiecore wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. "Gut bacteria are the cause, I can do nothing" "It's genetics" No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe they somehow pull more energy out of food than normal gut flora somehow, in the end it doesn't really m…

No, you are still wrong. I am morbidly obese and struggle with my weight daily. It will kill me in the end but I want to know what you would do when your metabolism is so low that your normal body temperature hangs at around 97.2F and resists being raised even by means of medications and heavy exercise. I'm sorry but when numerous doctors over 20 years all throw their hands up and say they can't help then there is no…

If your condition is as you describe than I'm sorry for you but you're one of like 0.1% of the population (probably less). It's fine, you got dealt a shit hand but you aren't saying that being obese is a healthy lifestyle and the thing is other people are.

Everyone I've ever known or read about has gained weight by eating more and lost weight by eating less, again less and more vary from individual to individual but the fact that calories in = calories out for maintenance is a law of physics.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#38

Post by indiecore »

king_jester wrote: post #32
indiecore wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. "Gut bacteria are the cause, I can do nothing" "It's genetics" No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe they somehow pull more energy out of food than normal gut flora somehow, in the end it doesn't really m…

> I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. Being morbidly obese and healthy? Very unlikely to be true. Morbidly obese and ok with? That's 100% legit, it's your body and you are free to do as you please. > No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe th…

>Being morbidly obese and healthy? Very unlikely to be true. Morbidly obese and ok with? That's 100% legit, it's your body and you are free to do as you please.

Yes, it is just don't spread misinformation.

>Except we already have strong evidence to suggest that calorie deficit diets do not have a causal relationship with weight loss

Except for everyone who has ever bulked or cut.

>and that those diets are hard to maintain over a long period of time, leading people to have yo-yo issues with their weight.

It's haaaaaaaaard. So is starting a company, so is raising a family.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#39

Post by marshray »

debacle wrote: post #16

Someone made a comment yesterday on another site about how we are still living in the bacterial age. It's a strange notion, that bacteria still own the earth, but we are host to more bacteria than we are our own cells. It's such an interesting yet scary thing to think about - does higher order life exist solely as vessels for bacteria propagation?

Well bacteria are a lot smaller than our own cells, so comparing them by count doesn't seem very meaningful.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#40

Post by indiecore »

patrickgzill wrote: post #36
AsylumWarden wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you are still wrong. I am morbidly obese and struggle with my weight daily. It will kill me in the end but I want to know what you would do when your metabolism is so low that your normal body temperature hangs at around 97.2F and resists being raised even by means of medications and heavy exercise. I'm sorry but when numerous doctors over 20 years all throw their hands up and say they can't help then there is no…

I am curious if you have experimented with the following: 1. increase iodine intake in some fashion 2. cut out all wheat products including whole grain 3. Atkins-style diet with restricted carbs in general 4. increased use of ginger as a spice or in tea (some believe it helps increase metabolic rate). 5. high intensity interval training (you mention exercise).

Caffine, Ephedrine (it's in congestion medicine like Brokaid in the US) and Yohmbine all have complementary effects on your metabolic rate and the last two have been shown to help speed fat loss while minimizing muscle loss.
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