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Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

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Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#171

Post by chuckadams »

duskwuff wrote: post #156
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is FTP really worse HTTP? If you try to enumerate directories over HTTP alarms start going off because you look like an attacker.

> Is FTP really worse HTTP? I don't think I'd even call it that. FTP had one purpose: it was an early protocol for remotely managing files. It never had any intent to support dynamically generated or otherwise "virtual" content (as supported by e.g. CGI scripts and mod_rewrite in Apache), and I don't think anyone has ever made a serious attempt to implement that. There's no practical use case for it. Even as a file m…

The strange way FTP manages connections goes back to FTP being older than TCP/IP itself, and thus using older circuit-switched networks. It wouldn't have been unusual for a server to dial up the receiving machine on-demand, which didn't have to be the machine running the command session. Before SMTP came around, email was commonly implemented on top of FTP.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#172

Post by Dylan16807 »

thataccount wrote: post #122
FreeTrade wrote: post #34

I tried very hard to develop for Nostr with the idea it was an inclusive communication commons. Turns out it was a Lightning Network payments promotion project. All of its users (aside from its creator) were very much more interested in Lightning than in Nostr. Dismal experience, still bitter about the effort I wasted on it.

In its early inception, it wasn't so bad about that. As it grew, though, it became insular and favored those who were going to the conventions for bitcoin and shouted things like "Pura Vida". My "done with it" moment was when there was a lady from some Latin American place who was asking for donations so she could go to one of those Bitcoin talks in Costa Rica, and everyone ignored her. It was weird to see people goi…

Someone couldn't get free money to visit a convention, especially a bitcoin one? That hardly seems like a negative to me.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#173

Post by Dylan16807 »

newguy1000 wrote: post #169
lxgr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But now imagine that the regulating body of your favorite hobby sport is deeply corrupt and fundamentally profit driven, so while playing with your friends is still fun, just thinking about ever competing at the regional level makes you shiver. [1] Sure, you can always fork a protocol/not federate with who you dislike etc., but you might find yourself fighting an uphill battle against other people’s experiences and p…

This makes no sense. It's a protocol.

It didn't float up from the mariana trench. There's a group of people that are effectively in charge of the protocol.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#174

Post by chr15m »

kragen wrote: post #166
hardran3 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users set their own relays. Other users can see this list and use it to send and receive events. It's fixed the need of big common relays. https://nips.nostr.com/65

So how does this hypothetical client find out what non-big relays have been set by the other users whose notes its user wants to receive, if not by receiving notes from those other users via one of the big common relays?

By seeding relay lists widely.

This is the "bootstrap problem" faced by all p2p networks.

NIP65 suggests spreading relay lists widely and to "pay attention" to popular relays:

> Clients SHOULD spread an author's kind:10002 event to as many relays as viable, paying attention to relays that, at any moment, serve naturally as well-known public indexers for these relay lists (where most other clients and users are connecting to in order to publish and fetch those).

Note this is different to centralising the whole protocol on popular relays. If affects the discovery phase only, and is robust to large relays disappearing.

If clients seed address lists widely they can easily find each other without major centralisation.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#175

Post by chr15m »

inigyou wrote: post #132
chr15m wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use a technology without agreeing with the views of other users of the technology. You don't have to follow those people.

These things have more effects than you think. IPFS just lost all funding because the NFT craze is over and they didn't find any alternative grift. That means the public gateways and general knowledge of the project will fade away and there won't be maintenance on the software.

IPFS did not lose all funding. Please check your facts.

IPFS has largely failed to find adoption as a protocol because it was over engineered and did not give users what they want.

People don't want decentralization. What they want is the downstream effects of decentralization like privacy, disaggregation of powerful entities, and permissionless participation.

For a protocol to be adopted it needs to give individual users these things in practice, not simply be "decentralized" in design.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#176

Post by Barrin92 »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #50
FreeTrade wrote: post #34

I tried very hard to develop for Nostr with the idea it was an inclusive communication commons. Turns out it was a Lightning Network payments promotion project. All of its users (aside from its creator) were very much more interested in Lightning than in Nostr. Dismal experience, still bitter about the effort I wasted on it.

You can't blame the protocol for the user it attracts. It is in early development. Just imagine the year is 1996 and you are complaining that WWW, IRC and the USENET is full of male tech nerds with a STEM background and a taste in SciFi/Fantasy culture. It will take some a while for the evolution to happen until you can get your beauty and makeup styling content.

>you are complaining that WWW, IRC and the USENET is full of male tech nerds with a STEM background and a taste in SciFi/Fantasy culture

that'd be a big step up because when I tried Nostr the last time I didn't even see people discussing computer science or pulp literature, but just random cryptocurrency nonsense, the equivalent of a room full of high school dropouts trying to sell you Tupperware at the door

I do think you can blame a protocol for the users it attracts. The medium's the message. A protocol is designed with intent, if there was no relation between a protocol and its users, what's the point of inventing it, just use an existing one.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#177

Post by thataccount »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #172
thataccount wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In its early inception, it wasn't so bad about that. As it grew, though, it became insular and favored those who were going to the conventions for bitcoin and shouted things like "Pura Vida". My "done with it" moment was when there was a lady from some Latin American place who was asking for donations so she could go to one of those Bitcoin talks in Costa Rica, and everyone ignored her. It was weird to see people goi…

Someone couldn't get free money to visit a convention, especially a bitcoin one? That hardly seems like a negative to me.

Pray you never require charity, poster.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#178

Post by Dylan16807 »

thataccount wrote: post #177
Dylan16807 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone couldn't get free money to visit a convention, especially a bitcoin one? That hardly seems like a negative to me.

Pray you never require charity, poster.

You put the word "require" there. That makes me think one of us has deeply misunderstood the situation...

Also, even purely in the umbrella of "giving money to strangers for them to have fun", a bitcoin conference is a weak use.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#179

Post by thataccount »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #178
thataccount wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray you never require charity, poster.

You put the word "require" there. That makes me think one of us has deeply misunderstood the situation... Also, even purely in the umbrella of "giving money to strangers for them to have fun", a bitcoin conference is a weak use.

You really don't understand what is going on in places like Latin America with Bitcoin do you? Let me enlighten you a little. People with a ton of Bitcoin go there to have fun, while trying to sell poor villages on the idea that Bitcoin will free them from poverty the rest of the world puts them in. The woman in question was in one of those villages, believing their idea that Bitcoin could free her and her village. They ignored her, and instead showed epic pictures of how carnivore and stuff they are. It's disgusting.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#180

Post by Dylan16807 »

thataccount wrote: post #179
Dylan16807 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put the word "require" there. That makes me think one of us has deeply misunderstood the situation... Also, even purely in the umbrella of "giving money to strangers for them to have fun", a bitcoin conference is a weak use.

You really don't understand what is going on in places like Latin America with Bitcoin do you? Let me enlighten you a little. People with a ton of Bitcoin go there to have fun, while trying to sell poor villages on the idea that Bitcoin will free them from poverty the rest of the world puts them in. The woman in question was in one of those villages, believing their idea that Bitcoin could free her and her village. T…

That sounds quite bad.

But it also sounds like sending her to participate would have been even worse than ignoring her!

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