Live data from Hacker News

Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

nostr.org

121–130 of 198 posts

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#121
post #4

The thing with Nostr is that the protocol spec expressly forbids relays from forwarding messages to each other. What this means is that users trying to reach each other need to shotgun messages to many relays, or congregate around specific ones. User profile data will list the relays they listen on, but this suffers from the problem of sticky defaults and makes client authors the kingmakers. There's lots of centraliz…

False. The protocol doesn’t forbid it. Theres actually a negentropy NIP for relay sync.

Did you read the actual protocol or are you just making things up on HN?

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#122

I tried very hard to develop for Nostr with the idea it was an inclusive communication commons. Turns out it was a Lightning Network payments promotion project. All of its users (aside from its creator) were very much more interested in Lightning than in Nostr. Dismal experience, still bitter about the effort I wasted on it.

In its early inception, it wasn't so bad about that. As it grew, though, it became insular and favored those who were going to the conventions for bitcoin and shouted things like "Pura Vida". My "done with it" moment was when there was a lady from some Latin American place who was asking for donations so she could go to one of those Bitcoin talks in Costa Rica, and everyone ignored her. It was weird to see people going to her basic geography, and completing ignoring and leaving someone behind who was "very into" the ethos, but said much about the project.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#124
post #117
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been 18 years and there are still no useful blockchain projects that go beyond trading and speculation. It hasn’t even produced a compelling currency, <2% of households use it for goods and services. I have no idea how or why anyone is still hanging on.

How would you anonymously pay for a VPN or donate to whistleblowers or get cash from an ATM without having to identify yourself? What is your backup plan to pay bills when your bank account is frozen by identity theft (can take months to resolve)? Only those that believe privacy and sovereign control of wealth has no value, can assert cryptocurrency is useless.

> How would you anonymously pay for a VPN or donate to whistleblowers or get cash from an ATM without having to identify yourself?

"Anonymously paying for VPN" seems a bit ironic given that almost all VPN users then immediately proceed to completely deanonymize themselves towards the VPN by accessing it from their (not anonymous) home Internet connection and/or to access sites that deanonymize them. Add to that the fact that most blockchains are very much public, and I couldn't think of a better way than crypto to deanonymize my entire payment and Internet usage profile in one go if I tried.

I do agree that payer (not necessarily payee) anonymity is really important and most existing payment methods fall short of what's arguably the absolute minimum in a non-surveillance state.

Still, this seems like a problem largely orthogonal to crypto. It's possible to build a payer-anonymous payment system based on regular centralized databases just fine, see e.g. GNU Taler.

> What is your backup plan to pay bills when your bank account is frozen by identity theft (can take months to resolve)?

Mine is to live in a jurisdiction where banks aren't allowed to get away with stuff like that (and where "identity theft" is not really a thing because knowing a 9-digit number and maybe having a photo of somebody's driver's license is not considered a valid KYC method), but I realize that this is not an option for nearly everybody in the world, and I do see some value of crypto as a forcing function in those.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly think it would be completely legit to build a completely separate ecosystem on top of the same protocol. A separate set of relays, separate apps which connect to those relays by default, no lighting payments, different defaults, marketed to a different audience. Ultimately it is not just a single network. If users need interoperability eventually they can easily add other relays. But it's true that many pe…

> no lighting payments Nah, you didn't understand it. Lightning is a layer-2 protocol on top of bitcoin. Nostr is the so-called layer-3. Good luck trying to build Nostr without Lightning.

It’s easy to have Nostr without it. Lightning support was an afterthought and you can just choose not to implement that NIP in the client. On the relay side you could just filter out that event type. Not hard at all.

The amount of ignorance about Nostr (by both pro and antis) is astounding for such a simple concept. I feel like literally nobody reads the very short specs.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like a RSS feed client or a podcast client that connects to multiple feeds to update your timeline.

> decentralization of power Insightful! We struggle with containing true decentralised protocols like BGP, Bittorrent, and Bitcoin. Email, RSS, and also Nostr are too simple. The core protocol does not contain any measures against spam, abuse and fraud. No accountability. Just launch a million fake identities and spam these network. Your Internet address got blocked? Try the a16z-funded startup that uses a USA-based…

> We struggle with containing true decentralised protocols like BGP, Bittorrent, and Bitcoin.

I find it hard to parse the intent of this. Are you saying this is good or bad? I think it’s good; I want my communications to be “uncontained,” even if there are downsides to this approach.

I do not believe in such a thing as “The Common Good,” to be quite frank, and find your mention of the concept to be alarming. What is “good” is relative across individuals, cultures, and situations. I certainly have my own beliefs about it but I don’t believe they should be enforced at the technological level.

Most people working on decentralization tech understand this innately. It’s not about reinforcing majoritarian views of what society is or should be.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#127
post #115
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto-people? As in that that other part of Homo Sapiens that is about to split off, or what? (Yes sarcasm) What are you even talking about? Please do some research before coming with such a response. Anything that is crypto-adjacent or sometimes even "not actively opposing" cryptocurrencies is heavily disapproved of here. I get some of it, and agree with much of it, but it always goes too far. Always leads to concl…

It’s been 18 years and there are still no useful blockchain projects that go beyond trading and speculation. It hasn’t even produced a compelling currency, <2% of households use it for goods and services. I have no idea how or why anyone is still hanging on.

> It hasn’t even produced a compelling currency

It has produced Monero which absolutely is that currency. Now if only we could get people to actually use it.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#128
post #70
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Eurosky can ban you.

The ability to ban people, and the choice of who is banned, is actually the defining feature of social networks.

I actually agree with you. Nostr is a new, unique technology, akin to a simpler XMPP with social features already baked in at an early stage. It’s not a messenger or a social network, yet it includes features from both.

Extensible, resilient communications without the threat of a central third party silencing you is quite appealing.

Re: Nostr is an inclusive communication commons

#129

How does this impractical crypto nonsense keep making it to the front page?

What does nostr have to do with crypto?

It was created by a popular Bitcoin person and crypto people are its primary user base. Tipping people with crypto is part of the protocol.
Post reply on HN