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Oceans hit highest temperature on record

bbc.com

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Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#591

Post by wat10000 »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #572
wat10000 wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that it’s a problem that sometimes restricts the capacity of the canal. I just take issue with this incredulous “they dump fresh water into the ocean” phrasing. You make it sound like they’re depriving thirsty people of precious water so they can inefficiently float their boats.

> You make it sound like they’re depriving thirsty people of precious water so they can inefficiently float their boats. I make it sound like that, or Le Monde ? There is so much conflicting information, all I care about is that while it's possible to operate a lock by consuming freshwater, it's only a marginal increase in knowledge to operate a lock without freshwater consumption... But for some reason every country…

The word "fresh" doesn't occur in the Le Monde article.

You're doing it again when you say "consuming freshwater." You make it sound like this is a precious resource that could be used to sustain human life but instead it's being dumped into the ocean because the canal is wasteful. It's not. It would go into the ocean regardless, as it has done since the river formed. The freshness of the water is irrelevant, the problem is only about the consequences to canal capacity.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#592

Post by lmz »

autoexec wrote: post #576
lmz wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a phrase for that "do as I say, not as I do" (see also: "pulling the ladder up"). This is rightly viewed as hypocritical by those on the receiving end.

There's also the phrase "Now we know better". When the industrial revolution came to the US we were ignorant and we polluted the world like crazy because of that. Today, we've learned from that mistake. We now know that you can and must control the pollution factories spew out into the world, even though doing that cuts into corporate profits. China doesn't get a pass to pollute at historic US levels for their indust…

These countries are competitive entities.

Even though the planet is shared, the earlier developed nations have gained advantages from their polluting (and at many times, colonial) past that allowed them to pull ahead of other countries. Now they want to stop others going down the same path without giving up their entrenched advantage. That is pulling the ladder up.

Either give up those advantages in the form of reparations (will never happen) or remove any pretense of moral superiority when all you are doing is just preserving your leading position gained using practices you now decry.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#593

Post by lmz »

RugnirViking wrote: post #578
lmz wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a phrase for that "do as I say, not as I do" (see also: "pulling the ladder up"). This is rightly viewed as hypocritical by those on the receiving end.

if the mafia boss tells his sons that they should avoid a life of crime, that doing it makes things worse for society and ones self, is he a hypocrite? should the boys follow his advice? my read is yes and yes are you suggesting it should instead be yes and no? that because the sons want to be rich they are morally in the right for going into a life of crime, even knowing the consequences?

The countries are competitive with each other, not in a father/son relationship.

At least the father has a natural lifespan and the ill gotten riches would go to the son(s). Can we say the same thing about the riches of say, the USA? If China does nothing then they will inherit all of it? Or will the US just keep its fortune gained through whatever means, and just tell other up and coming countries to suck rocks and know their place while using the Earth as justification?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#594

Post by drawnwren »

fragmede wrote: post #417
drawnwren wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the derivatives, there is no change a Western Democracy can make that will matter as this plays out.

Humanity being saved by China just dumping money into solar because why not, is certainly a take.

Again, look at the derivatives. Western democracies are currently reducing while China are massively increasing per capita and on track to surpass US per capita in the next decade. Total has long been the more populous countries. The unfortunate truth that presents itself is that if you're not willing to go to war over climate, reduction of consumption is not going to happen.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#595

Post by tpm »

RugnirViking wrote: post #590
tpm wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how much of US emissions is outsourced?

I refer you to my comment at the top of this chain on "outsourced" emissions

"I don't accept" is not an answer though. When the EU can create CBAM, so can (and should) the US and anyone else. That way we don't have to talk about moral responsibility and can progress to adequate international carbon pricing.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#596

Post by drawnwren »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #432
fragmede wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanity being saved by China just dumping money into solar because why not, is certainly a take.

Because "why not?" Do we understand that humanity includes Chinese people? Do we also understand A) the steps they're already taking to reduce emissions and B) how much of their emissions historically and today are in service of Western consumers?

China has never had a meaningful reduction in per capita carbon emissions. Ever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#597

Post by vkou »

Timon3 wrote: post #588
leonidasrup wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy Katharina Reiche is continuing the powerplant strategy of the previous Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy Robert Habeck. The 2024 plans under Green minister Robert Habeck called for 25 GW of capacity of new gas power plants (which should be in future fueled with green hydrogen. But until enough hydrogen is available at good price, the new gas powerplants will…

> [...] Katharina Reiche is continuing the powerplant strategy of the previous Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy Robert Habeck I'm honestly flabbergasted at this propaganda attempt, because you happen to have left out (just a tiny excerpt): - Reiche's previous employer being one of Germany's biggest energy firms (Eon), and almost every decision she has made happens to be according to Eons interests - Reiche ha…

So, tl;dr, it's the environmentalists' fault?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#598

Post by loeg »

goda90 wrote: post #499
YZF wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar energy is the fastest growing source of energy in the US. That's because it's also the cheapest source of energy. So markets are working. https://abcnews.com/US/solar-generates-energy-coal-us-1st-ti... "Solar and storage provided 90% of all new power added in the U.S." is mind blowing. How about we give the US credit for this? Fossil fuel extraction is not the problem. The problem is fossil fuel usage. Given th…

> Fossil fuel extraction is not the problem. It is a problem though. Extraction and transportation of fossil fuels is a major source of methane, which is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2.

Methane breaks down over a relatively short timescale (10 years).

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#599

Post by DoctorOetker »

wat10000 wrote: post #591
DoctorOetker wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You make it sound like they’re depriving thirsty people of precious water so they can inefficiently float their boats. I make it sound like that, or Le Monde ? There is so much conflicting information, all I care about is that while it's possible to operate a lock by consuming freshwater, it's only a marginal increase in knowledge to operate a lock without freshwater consumption... But for some reason every country…

The word "fresh" doesn't occur in the Le Monde article. You're doing it again when you say "consuming freshwater." You make it sound like this is a precious resource that could be used to sustain human life but instead it's being dumped into the ocean because the canal is wasteful. It's not. It would go into the ocean regardless, as it has done since the river formed. The freshness of the water is irrelevant, the pro…

Artificial lake water from rainfall is fresh water! now check for "rainfall"

I don't understand why people actively go out of their way to downvote and criticize people who merely point out its entirely unnecessary to waste fresh water ... to operate locks, nor is the alternative environmentally friendly: rerouting cargo ships around a whole continent instead of using an already existing shortcut.

We're not frogs slowly getting boiled,

we're frogs complaining we're getting boiled while suppressing a couple of helpful frogs who're trying to turn the heat down... all for what? saving face of the status quo?

I'm not interested in "vote number go up" just in "get basic logic to surface in the discussion" which is hard when your message is greyed out!

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#600

Post by asdfman123 »

tomhow wrote: post #428
asdfman123 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to

Don't make insinuations you aren't willing to back with evidence. We've had guidelines against this for years, precisely because these claims make for such repetitive and empty discussion, and this subthread is a perfect specimen of that. Any time anyone provides us with evidence of manipulation of the site, we investigate it and take action. We – of course – care about manipulation on HN; the only reason this is a s…

I invite you to do your own research. I'm not going to argue for every uncontroversial claim. If you believe it's controversial, see my first sentence.
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