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Why some US restaurants are banning tips

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Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#271

Post by neucoas »

dofm wrote: post #151
yostrovs wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. After you've ordered, it is rare to order anything else. You might ask for a refill of a beverage or something like ketchup, but the waiter is not expecting more ordering. It's simply expected by diners that their waiter is there and will help with whatever they need. In Europe you'll wait 20 minutes to get the attention of a waiter for salt or ketchup until your food is cold. Also in Europe this will be describe…

> In Europe you'll wait 20 minutes to get the attention of a waiter for salt or ketchup until your food is cold. You could ask for the salt or ketchup when the meal arrives. Also Europeans are not, I think, accustomed to asking for salt, or ketchup, on already seasoned food. So your request is actually unusual.

Imagine adding ketchup to a decent meal

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#272

Post by konart »

carlosjobim wrote: post #177
konart wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People over the Atlantic just have a better concept of social gathering as opposed to neediness of being served and staffed with food. People come to a place to have fun and talk for a few hours or their free time. Drinks and food coming and going is just a small nuance. 10 minutes (often way less of course) for drinks to arrive is mostly okay. Nobody is busy waiting for them.

From the restaurant owner's perspective there is no benefit of slow or bad service. That means guests are taking up room without spending money. It makes much better sense to be speedy in giving your guests attention and service, as this gives you more sales, more margin for error, and most importantly much happier guests. They can still focus on the socializing and being merry.

Nobody is talking about bad or slow service.

It's just there is a difference between "slow service" and, you know, taking needed time.

Sure, some times it can be slow, at any place or country. But the thing described in the parent comment is just either a hyperbolization (my bet) or some unfortunate coincidence.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#273

Post by JohnFen »

tossandthrow wrote: post #138
getfacl wrote: post #31

The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there. The owner wants the maximum ratio of servers to customers possible. In the typical USA system, being paid primarily in tips means the server is highly incentivized to upsell the customer as much as possible and do everything they can to increase the total bill, and therefor increase their tip. Essentially a comm…

> Instead of checking on the customer every few minutes This is likely one of the absolute worst features of the US dining system. So many times I have been sitting in deep conversation with friends or colleagues just for a waiter to claim all attention to ask if we want to have refilled water. That they can even push themselves to such rude behavior is entirely insane to me.

As an American, I couldn't agree more. The server frequently stopping by to check on things is incredibly disruptive and annoying and I wish they'd just stop.

I'm fine with checking one time early enough in the meal that conversations haven't gone deep yet, but outside of that, I'm perfectly capable of signalling if we need anything.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#274

Post by kakacik »

xyzelement wrote: post #218
lintfordpickle wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an incredibly obnoxious comment.

[flagged]

Most of the world doesn't tip or does it very casually. Keep this aspect of US culture to yourself please, we see it as crap to be polite and artifact of worker's abuse and exploitation thats typical for US compared to all other western world.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#275

Post by konart »

ohyoutravel wrote: post #116
konart wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People over the Atlantic just have a better concept of social gathering as opposed to neediness of being served and staffed with food. People come to a place to have fun and talk for a few hours or their free time. Drinks and food coming and going is just a small nuance. 10 minutes (often way less of course) for drinks to arrive is mostly okay. Nobody is busy waiting for them.

Different concept, not objectively better.

I disagree and many trivial numbers are telling the story here, but I'm not going to argue.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#276

Post by JohnFen »

briHass wrote: post #258
tossandthrow wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of checking on the customer every few minutes This is likely one of the absolute worst features of the US dining system. So many times I have been sitting in deep conversation with friends or colleagues just for a waiter to claim all attention to ask if we want to have refilled water. That they can even push themselves to such rude behavior is entirely insane to me.

Experienced servers will usually try to 'feel out' a table to understand if they are in a rush, demanding, want to converse, etc. The same behavior that feels rude when you're catching up with old friends is often welcomed by a table that might have limited time to eat or that prefer to have things done without waiting or flagging someone down. You do realize that it's perfectly acceptable and commonplace to explain…

> You do realize that it's perfectly acceptable and commonplace to explain your group's preferences to the server upon first being introduced?

And say what? "Please don't come and check on us, and instead keep an eye for our signal" seems more rude than I'd be comfortable with doing.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#277

Post by konart »

yostrovs wrote: post #150
ohyoutravel wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different concept, not objectively better.

In America, waiting for staff to serve you is considered time lost. In Europe it's called European culture.

But you are not waiting. You are talking to your friends or family.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#278

Post by thevinter »

hammock wrote: post #172
my-next-account wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop tipping unless the service is very good. Hell, the quality of the service could be reflected in the cost of the food (it is), and you don't need to tip at all. Thank you, A Swede.

I also tip 10% in Europe unless I see a table/service charge added, and I will gladly stop if you say so

If there's no service charge added explicitly then that amount is usually directly factored in the cost of the food and redistributed to the service staff. As far as I know there are currently no EU countries where tipping contributes towards salary.

However, contrary to what many might say, tipping has been a part of European culture for a very long time (especially in the UK, Germany and some Slavic countries). You won't offend basically anyone if you don't tip, since it's basically considered an extra thanks for the service, but small tips/round-ups are fairly common[0] and sadly somewhat important in countries with lower minimum wages or heavily seasonal tourism.

*That said*, while I have nothing against tips as a purely voluntary contribution, I'm of the idea that - regardless of traditions and customs - the push to de-normalize compulsory tips is of fundamental importance for establishing (and keeping) decent wages for staff.

[0]: from a few euros, up to 10%. The new 15/20/25% model is purely American and predatory in nature

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#279

Post by zarzavat »

irishcoffee wrote: post #243
Fargren wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I need anything, I will call for the waiter. I do find it intrusive and patronizing if they come and check if I need anything. I'm not "upset" about it, but it does make my dining experience worse. It also gives me the impression they are trying to get me to free up the table as soon as possible.

It is very amusing to me that in a different part of this thread people are complaining that the waiter doesn't come by enough, and here the complaint is the opposite.

The critical difference for me is if they ask while you're eating, perhaps 5 minutes after serving your table, that's OK it means they are genuinely interested in improving your experience and it's an opportunity to correct minor problems.

If they ask after you've eaten, that would be rude, from my British perspective.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#280

Post by orthoxerox »

TrackerFF wrote: post #149
getfacl wrote: post #31

The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there. The owner wants the maximum ratio of servers to customers possible. In the typical USA system, being paid primarily in tips means the server is highly incentivized to upsell the customer as much as possible and do everything they can to increase the total bill, and therefor increase their tip. Essentially a comm…

Used to have a lot of American workers here on some projects here, and mind you - these are very travelled and well-versed ones. The contractors that travel around the world for a solid chunk of their careers. They didn't really mind the the typical service here, where you'll have to wait a bit before a waiter sees you. You get used to it. On the other hand, you have the first time tourists, that will go "excuuuse me…

As a European, I expect the waiter to show their face within 5 minutes, at least to ask if we want anything to drink while still determining what to eat.
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