Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why some US restaurants are banning tips

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 416 posts

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#211

Post by xxs »

xyzelement wrote: post #127
SkiFire13 wrote: post #96

The thing that bugs me about tips is the fact they are a percentage. Why am I supposed to tip more if I ordered something more expensive but the service is equally good?

In general a higher bill is a proxy for a larger meal of more people in a more high-end establishment so it tracks well. I agree if you had the $200 sea food tower by yourself it deviates from that otherwise perfect proxy. But that's already a weird situation so just pay the tip and move on.

A massive price difference would be the drinks (also the most of the profit) - realistically opening a bottle of expensive wine vs the bog standard cabernet serves as no proxy to anything.

Likely certain single malts vs jim beam.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#212

Post by anal_reactor »

vages wrote: post #158
QuantumNomad_ wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least they don’t demand a bunch of extra tips. I’m European (well, Scandinavian, which some Europeans consider European and some don’t) and my rule of thumb is that if I go out I tip 10%. If the service is extra good I might tip extra. If the service is very bad (unreasonably slow, or staff forget or mix up the order in a significant way, or they are very rude), I tip 0%. Of course everyone can mess up things a li…

I'm also Scandinavian (Norwegian), and I never tip when going out. I can't think of any long-term outcome of a tipping culture that is efficient for the workers and employers, even if the amount the customer tipped was correlated with quality (the research I've read shows it's got more to do with looks). It is simply more efficient that both parties know what they are agreeing to up front when (1) the worker still ha…

I never tip because if burger with fries costs €15 then we had a fucking legal contract that you'll give me a burger with fries for €15, don't be like "uuuuuuh sir I'm going to ruin your evening by asking you to pay more at the checkout time because reasons".

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#213

Post by eagerpace »

The bigger story for me is tipping fatigue. Almost every service worker requests a tip now. It seems to be from the rise in digital payments where everyone just turns on that feature. As a consumer, I have no idea if the worker’s compensation model is tied to tips or not and it feels like the ones who aren’t have hijacked my generosity.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#214

Post by Fargren »

hammock wrote: post #165
palata wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant "solely from tips", obviously. And yeah, on top of abusing the employees by not paying them (and relying on the customers to pay the employees directly), stealing from the tip is even more abusive. And let's not even talk about those delivery (and similar) apps that also abuse the tips in their algorithms.

> I meant "solely from tips", obviously. That was not obvious. Nor is that a common practice

Let me restate what the OP said. (quotes used for paraphrasing, not for quoting)

"Restaurant owners set a price on their dishes, because if everyone payed at will, the owners know they would make less money. Therefore we can assume owners know that paying at-will does not optimize earnings. Therefore, it's insane that they make their staff work for pay that's at-will".

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#215

Post by sgerenser »

unixhero wrote: post #108
raincole wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The owner wants the maximum ratio of servers to customers possible. Why? It sounds very weird. In every kind of business the owner has strong incentive to cut labor.

Not if they are (hardly) paid anything. Then pile on staff!

Turnover in the restaurant industry is brutal. An always overstaffed restaurant where the waitstaff ends up not earning much in tips will quickly lose staff to competitors (at least the good ones).

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#216

Post by anotherboffin »

philipallstar wrote: post #196
hammock wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s funny. When there recently, I had a woman put the cc machine back in my face with a pouty look after I had plugged in 10%. She was non-Swiss herself though and I read it as trying to take advantage of a tourist

> She was non-Swiss herself though and I read it as trying to take advantage of a tourist Why would being non-Swiss make someone more likely to take advantage of a tourist?

Not the OP, but I guess they meant non-Swiss as someone who might be used to a different set of tipping norms?

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#217

Post by ricardobayes »

xyzelement wrote: post #101
ricardobayes wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the biggest cultural differences - for Spain - is that servers are seen as equals, not as a client-provider relationship. This reflects heavily in the language often used - "when you can, bring me X". Just one of the quirks of a low gini coefficient society.

Just yesterday there was a story on HN about Spain's dying villages and a commenter who I assumed was Spanish attributed theow beth rate to income inequality. Which is it - low gini for talking to a waiter, high gini for starting a fam?

In my opinion, low birth rates can't be attributed to income, or income inequality. I feel like it's more about optimism, to have kids you have to be optimistic about the future.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#218

Post by xyzelement »

lintfordpickle wrote: post #207
xyzelement wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're telling on yourself. Most people I know are happy to leave a tip - especially to reward great service as part of a great night, or in cases where you have a long term relationship with an establishment and its staff. I can only imagine the staff is likewise happy to see the nice tip from us at the end of the night. If you can only imagine "unnecessary bad feelings" - I can only imagine the tip you leave and ho…

What an incredibly obnoxious comment.

[flagged]

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#219

Post by amiga386 »

jmull3n wrote: post #82
KellyCriterion wrote: post #55

Very often regarding those articles, you read in the comments different varieties of "good service": - may I ask: What does this actually mean? I have never been to a "high class" or "fine dining" location, so maybe my expectations are in general not high. My expectations are just simple: Give me the menu quickly, let me order quickly, let me eat and let me pay quickly. Thats it. What do I miss? EDIT: Im located in E…

Good service is mostly invisible. Courses paced to how you're eating, not fired all at once or giving you 20 minute gaps between mains. Drinks refilled, plates cleared without asking. Reading the room and knowing when I want to chat or be left alone. Staff that know what their serving, whats in it, how it's cooked, what wine pairs well, etc.

That also includes accomodating guest preferences and allergies, and the staff being empowered to act.

For example, let's say you're allergic to nuts. Not only should the menu list all allergens, but also you should be able to say "I'm allergic to nuts. Can I have the beef cheek without the walnut garnish?" and the waiter should know if that's possible or not, and if there are any other nuts hidden in there, without having to ask the chef. They can say "let me check with the chef", but if they don't need to check because they already know the dishes well enough, that's great service.

It goes without saying:

- if you can and do order it nut-free, the dish served to you should be nut-free

- the waiter shouldn't freak out like this is the first guest with allergies they've ever had to accomodate

- they shouldn't refuse to serve you anything at all because "there are nuts in the kitchen", even if you explain that you're ok with the presence of nuts in an area provided they're not deliberately part of the food

- they shouldn't hand you a binder of laminated pages marked "ALLERGENS" and make you find the menu entry yourself

Also, if you're doing a tasting menu with a party of six and the restaurant has already agreed to accommodate your allergies, but you sit at a different seat at the table, they shouldn't reliably serve the nut-free dishes to the wrong person, sitting in the seat they decided the allergic customer would be sitting at, for every course.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#220

Post by Freak_NL »

rapnie wrote: post #176
bilekas wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to ask, why are you tipping 10% before the service is extra good? I'm really against the idea that the company isn't responsible for paying their staff properly. Setting a baseline of 10% just says to me that the restaurant owners can just pay their staff less. And if the server is having an off day or just didn't meet your particular standards then they're losing money.

I think in the Netherlands the general rule is to tip up to 10% depending how good the service was, unless it was excellent and you go higher. When drinking a couple coffees in a restaurant it is okay to tip with a single Euro for good service, even if that doesn't amount to 10%.

This is despite the unfortunate and rude trend of payment devices now offering a big dickover screen filled with obscene tip suggestions first (25% in a fucking chain fastfood place?), because with the decline of cash the old way of rounding up the bill dies out too.
Post reply on HN