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Why some US restaurants are banning tips

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Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#71

Post by Yizahi »

jamisteven wrote: post #39
getfacl wrote: post #31

The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there. The owner wants the maximum ratio of servers to customers possible. In the typical USA system, being paid primarily in tips means the server is highly incentivized to upsell the customer as much as possible and do everything they can to increase the total bill, and therefor increase their tip. Essentially a comm…

LMFAO, have you ever been to a restaurant in Europe? The service is horrific. Sit down and wait 15 minutes for the menus, another 15 to place a drink order, another 10 for the drinks to get there, another 10 to place food order. Now you finish the meal, good luck getting the waiters attention to bring the check. European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white h…

I've been in hundreds of not fancy restaurants across Europe in my life, in many countries. The service speed in like 95% of all cases is at maximum or vary close to it. It's between 0 to 1-2 minutes to get menu, then 0 to 1-2 minute to flag a waiter and order, and that all delays possibly induced by the serving staff. The rest is just how long it takes to cook and is not relevant here. So maybe USA shaves off a few tens of seconds of that, and pays for that with tens of dollars per visit plus suffers an annoying questions all the time, while I'm eating. No thanks.

Maybe you guys like your USA service model. Maybe Europeans are mistaken about USA service model. But one thing is certain - you USA guys have zero idea about speed of service on average in European cafes and restaurants, judging by your comments :) .

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#72

Post by jorvi »

arjie wrote: post #19
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow the "tip culture" is spreading over here too, especially in touristy areas, even the POS terminals now ask you for a tip.

Interesting. What POS terminals are common there? I am curious about culture spreading through technology defaults and wonder if it's effectively driven by whatever Square chose and whomever else decided to ape the incumbent or whatever.

You them everywhere. Most insane are the bars where you have to walk up from your seating to the bar to order, the bartender plops the drinks on the bar and immediately moves on to another customer, and the terminal still displays default tip amounts and you have to do custom → €0. What the hell am I tipping you for?

At this point I'm waiting for supermarket self-checkout to add a default tip amount.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#73

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

jacobgorm wrote: post #17
Rygian wrote: post #6

As a foreigner in the US, I've made the faux-pas of assuming waiters and waitresses were being paid a full salary by their employer. I even suspect that I received sub-par service from some of them, who may have identified me as a "no-tip risk" from the first moment.

You were lucky to get out alive.

Threatening assault on a paying customer for not knowing tipping norms is just one of the many reasons why American society is in the state it is. I've seen similar things like 'be glad I didn't spit in your food', 'next time they are getting trouser food'. This is despicable.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#74

Post by neya »

Tipping is a weird phenomenon that's only an issue in the Americas. I have traveled extensively all over Asia and even the same chain/restaurants which are US based don't actually have the concept of tipping. Sure, you can always tip if you want. However, the issue with tipping culture is the blatant entitlement. I always tell rude waiters who literally demand tips for shitty services this:

    A tip is a token of gratitude, should the customer choose to offer. It is not an entitlement.
I get it, their wages aren't great. However, that is a discussion to be had with their employer, not me.

Of course, I want them to get paid a fair wage too - the only way to fight against this culture is taking a stand against tipping. If enough people don't tip, hopefully the restaurant will struggle to find staff and eventually - either close down or increase the wages. But, don't try to run a restaurant when you clearly can't afford to pay your staff a decent wage. That's just running a business on hopes and dreams. It's not my job to subsidize your poor financial and business planning.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#75

Post by crazybonkersai »

jamisteven wrote: post #39
getfacl wrote: post #31

The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there. The owner wants the maximum ratio of servers to customers possible. In the typical USA system, being paid primarily in tips means the server is highly incentivized to upsell the customer as much as possible and do everything they can to increase the total bill, and therefor increase their tip. Essentially a comm…

LMFAO, have you ever been to a restaurant in Europe? The service is horrific. Sit down and wait 15 minutes for the menus, another 15 to place a drink order, another 10 for the drinks to get there, another 10 to place food order. Now you finish the meal, good luck getting the waiters attention to bring the check. European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white h…

Ah much generalisation. Europe is over 40 countries with vast differences in quality of service and restaurant culture. I have been to restaurants in many European countries and the only generalisation I can make is that tip culture does not exist in Europe.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#76

Post by sgerenser »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #34
nkrisc wrote: post #15

I never thought about paying staff via tips being a tax dodge for the restaurant if it lets them avoid raising prices and thus taxable revenue.

If the price increase is actually linked to higher wages for the staff, there should be no increase in taxable revenue for the restaurant, because the wages are deductible expenses. But there is still the matter of sales tax (paid by the customer), and the tax payable by the employee on their wages (not sure if tips are technically taxable income already, but regardless, you can bet most staff aren't paying taxes on…

They used to be taxable income, but now thanks to Trump’s “no tax on tips” campaign promise they aren’t. Effectively nobody paid taxes on cash tips anyway, but nowadays cash tips are relatively rare and credit card tips definitely show up on paystubs/W2s.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#77

Post by raegis »

Rygian wrote: post #6

As a foreigner in the US, I've made the faux-pas of assuming waiters and waitresses were being paid a full salary by their employer. I even suspect that I received sub-par service from some of them, who may have identified me as a "no-tip risk" from the first moment.

> As a foreigner in the US, I've made the faux-pas of assuming waiters and waitresses were being paid a full salary by their employer.

This depends on the state. For example, in California, servers get state minimum wage, at least ($16.90/hour). On the other hand, most "red" states use the federal minimums: $2.13/hour for servers (!) and $7.25/hour for non-tipped employees.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#78

Post by bell-cot »

nkrisc wrote: post #15

I never thought about paying staff via tips being a tax dodge for the restaurant if it lets them avoid raising prices and thus taxable revenue.

The BBC article's "sales tax" reason sounds good - unless you know that several US states do not have sales tax.

The actual history of tipping: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping#History

And a bit on Sales Taxes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_tax#In_the_United_States

From old family stories, I figure the real reason for tipping service workers is that both employers and customers want there to be plenty of service workers available - but the demand for their labor (restaurant customers, whatever) is very unpredictable compared to factory, farm, or gov't work. And service industries can't afford to keep a lot of idle workers around at full pay. So tipping is a simple revenue-sharing scheme, wrapped in social niceties, that boosts/cuts the service workers' income based on whether business is currently fast or slow.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#79

Post by bilekas »

QuantumNomad_ wrote: post #63
rock_artist wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends and also is culture based. In Spain you can find some places (eg coffee place) with 1-2 workers. Sometimes it takes a lot of time to get your order at rush hours, but the culture tolerates patience and waiting.

At least they don’t demand a bunch of extra tips. I’m European (well, Scandinavian, which some Europeans consider European and some don’t) and my rule of thumb is that if I go out I tip 10%. If the service is extra good I might tip extra. If the service is very bad (unreasonably slow, or staff forget or mix up the order in a significant way, or they are very rude), I tip 0%. Of course everyone can mess up things a li…

I have to ask, why are you tipping 10% before the service is extra good? I'm really against the idea that the company isn't responsible for paying their staff properly.

Setting a baseline of 10% just says to me that the restaurant owners can just pay their staff less. And if the server is having an off day or just didn't meet your particular standards then they're losing money.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#80

Post by ricardobayes »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #55

Very often regarding those articles, you read in the comments different varieties of "good service": - may I ask: What does this actually mean? I have never been to a "high class" or "fine dining" location, so maybe my expectations are in general not high. My expectations are just simple: Give me the menu quickly, let me order quickly, let me eat and let me pay quickly. Thats it. What do I miss? EDIT: Im located in E…

That's a good question. Good service is something important to the overall dining experience, so much so, higher end places regard the "maître d'hôtel" aka the service/restaurant manager equal to the chef.

Great service is generally about "reading your mind": e.g. providing you with a replacement fork that you dropped without you needing to ask. Also, coordinating that "timing" you are after, perfectly. Good service is attentive without being overly present. If you ever ate somewhere in a sitdown restaurant and thought after "wow that was a great meal", service contributed to that.

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