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Why some US restaurants are banning tips

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Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#171

Post by ghaff »

crazybonkersai wrote: post #75
jamisteven wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LMFAO, have you ever been to a restaurant in Europe? The service is horrific. Sit down and wait 15 minutes for the menus, another 15 to place a drink order, another 10 for the drinks to get there, another 10 to place food order. Now you finish the meal, good luck getting the waiters attention to bring the check. European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white h…

Ah much generalisation. Europe is over 40 countries with vast differences in quality of service and restaurant culture. I have been to restaurants in many European countries and the only generalisation I can make is that tip culture does not exist in Europe.

Although in the UK, there is often an "optional" service charge tacked on for table service dining. (Yes, you can get it taken off but I'm guessing most people don't.)

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#172

Post by hammock »

my-next-account wrote: post #107
QuantumNomad_ wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least they don’t demand a bunch of extra tips. I’m European (well, Scandinavian, which some Europeans consider European and some don’t) and my rule of thumb is that if I go out I tip 10%. If the service is extra good I might tip extra. If the service is very bad (unreasonably slow, or staff forget or mix up the order in a significant way, or they are very rude), I tip 0%. Of course everyone can mess up things a li…

Please stop tipping unless the service is very good. Hell, the quality of the service could be reflected in the cost of the food (it is), and you don't need to tip at all. Thank you, A Swede.

I also tip 10% in Europe unless I see a table/service charge added, and I will gladly stop if you say so

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#173

Post by yostrovs »

dofm wrote: post #151
yostrovs wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. After you've ordered, it is rare to order anything else. You might ask for a refill of a beverage or something like ketchup, but the waiter is not expecting more ordering. It's simply expected by diners that their waiter is there and will help with whatever they need. In Europe you'll wait 20 minutes to get the attention of a waiter for salt or ketchup until your food is cold. Also in Europe this will be describe…

> In Europe you'll wait 20 minutes to get the attention of a waiter for salt or ketchup until your food is cold. You could ask for the salt or ketchup when the meal arrives. Also Europeans are not, I think, accustomed to asking for salt, or ketchup, on already seasoned food. So your request is actually unusual.

It's amazing how much is attributed to culture. What if I like more salt? European are not accustomed to ask for salt. What if the chef forgot to add salt? You'll wait till your food is cold. It's culture.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#174

Post by frikskit »

yostrovs wrote: post #135
zarzavat wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could say the same about US restaurants. I want to socialise with the people I'm sharing the meal with, not some random waiter. The servers are constantly interrupting, ruining the mood and you feel unwelcome like they want to get you out the door the moment your plate is empty (because that's exactly what they want). It's like being on a conveyor belt.

The waiter comes by about twice in a visit, asks you "Is there anything you need?". You say "No thanks". And you get upset by that. And then you complain about Americans and their terrible ways. What sense does that make? Can't you see how rude you are? The person simply came by to check, since that person is your waiter and the goal is that you have a tasty and pleasant time.

While I very much agree with your sentiment and to be honest I prefer dining in the USA, it’s naive to think (in most cases) that they actually care about anything other than getting you out of the restaurant as soon as possible to work a new party.

Of course, there’s a bit of future optimization where they want you as a repeat customer, but that manifests in pretending they don’t want you out, not actually feeling that way. It makes sense - a rational revenue maximizing business does want you out but they need to pretend they don’t. The veneer is thin in many cases (though it varies by establishment). Personally, I’d prefer the incentives aligned with being a bit more straightforward, down to earth and without fake flattery.

I remember I had a meal once as a group of 5 about 10 years ago at a beachfront restaurant in Boca. At this group size a tip of 18% was added by default. Our waiter had been so cloying and over the top, calling us friends, etc. When the bill came and I didn’t tip anything other than 18% the waiter started shouting from across the room and made physical contact with me because he thought I hadn’t tipped. It was really a horrible experience, but very telling.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#175

Post by Scarblac »

getfacl wrote: post #88
jasode wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>European restaurants typically use a team service model, American chain restaurants also use the team model. The server that writes down the order often isn't the same person bringing out the hot plates of food. Maybe less of team than Europe because the waitress taking the order will typically be the same one refilling the drinks. It's the white tablecloth high-end restaurants where the one waiter is the only perso…

What you are describing is not team service because the server "owns" the customer and are the one who will collect the tip from that table. What you are noticing is that many chains have a "full hands" rule: if any server with free hands walks past a table with dirty dishes on the way to the kitchen, they are expected to pick them up no mater who's section it is. Also, if they are heading out from the kitchen with f…

Afaik, in Europe there is no person who "owns" the tip. It goes into a centralized pot that is shared by all the employees.

Especially because most payments are by card (where I live), the tip first ends up with the restaurant itself anyway, not individual waiters.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#176

Post by rapnie »

bilekas wrote: post #79
QuantumNomad_ wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least they don’t demand a bunch of extra tips. I’m European (well, Scandinavian, which some Europeans consider European and some don’t) and my rule of thumb is that if I go out I tip 10%. If the service is extra good I might tip extra. If the service is very bad (unreasonably slow, or staff forget or mix up the order in a significant way, or they are very rude), I tip 0%. Of course everyone can mess up things a li…

I have to ask, why are you tipping 10% before the service is extra good? I'm really against the idea that the company isn't responsible for paying their staff properly. Setting a baseline of 10% just says to me that the restaurant owners can just pay their staff less. And if the server is having an off day or just didn't meet your particular standards then they're losing money.

I think in the Netherlands the general rule is to tip up to 10% depending how good the service was, unless it was excellent and you go higher. When drinking a couple coffees in a restaurant it is okay to tip with a single Euro for good service, even if that doesn't amount to 10%.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#177

Post by carlosjobim »

konart wrote: post #95
jamisteven wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LMFAO, have you ever been to a restaurant in Europe? The service is horrific. Sit down and wait 15 minutes for the menus, another 15 to place a drink order, another 10 for the drinks to get there, another 10 to place food order. Now you finish the meal, good luck getting the waiters attention to bring the check. European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white h…

People over the Atlantic just have a better concept of social gathering as opposed to neediness of being served and staffed with food. People come to a place to have fun and talk for a few hours or their free time. Drinks and food coming and going is just a small nuance. 10 minutes (often way less of course) for drinks to arrive is mostly okay. Nobody is busy waiting for them.

From the restaurant owner's perspective there is no benefit of slow or bad service. That means guests are taking up room without spending money. It makes much better sense to be speedy in giving your guests attention and service, as this gives you more sales, more margin for error, and most importantly much happier guests. They can still focus on the socializing and being merry.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#178

Post by ghaff »

mschuster91 wrote: post #44
jamisteven wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LMFAO, have you ever been to a restaurant in Europe? The service is horrific. Sit down and wait 15 minutes for the menus, another 15 to place a drink order, another 10 for the drinks to get there, another 10 to place food order. Now you finish the meal, good luck getting the waiters attention to bring the check. European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white h…

> European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white house or something fancy. Part of European dining is the social aspect, that gets ruined when you're constantly being asked if you want another drink.

So you say "I'm good or maybe in a bit." Was that hard? (Versus trying to chase someone down to get your beer refilled.)

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#179

Post by alexpotato »

getfacl wrote: post #31

The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there. The owner wants the maximum ratio of servers to customers possible. In the typical USA system, being paid primarily in tips means the server is highly incentivized to upsell the customer as much as possible and do everything they can to increase the total bill, and therefor increase their tip. Essentially a comm…

> USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there.

> European restaurants typically use a team service model, which greatly reduces the number of staff needed

100% this.

US restaurants have a "zone" model and always seem to need 3x the staff of European restaurants.

If you went the Euro model, you could have less staff and pay them more per head and therefore not need tipping.

> There is no pressure to run up the bill or clear out quickly in this model.

I think this is more a function of "need to turn over tables at some multiple per night to cover costs" but costs aren't just labor e.g. rent and food are also big line items.

Re: Why some US restaurants are banning tips

#180

Post by hammock »

detourdog wrote: post #103
QuantumNomad_ wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least they don’t demand a bunch of extra tips. I’m European (well, Scandinavian, which some Europeans consider European and some don’t) and my rule of thumb is that if I go out I tip 10%. If the service is extra good I might tip extra. If the service is very bad (unreasonably slow, or staff forget or mix up the order in a significant way, or they are very rude), I tip 0%. Of course everyone can mess up things a li…

I’m from the USA and had the experience in Switzerland where the server refunded money due to my overtipping.

That’s funny. When there recently, I had a woman put the cc machine back in my face with a pouty look after I had plugged in 10%.

She was non-Swiss herself though and I read it as trying to take advantage of a tourist

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