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Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

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Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#651

Post by boomlinde »

yoz-y wrote: post #246
Grombobulous wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Western people still call this situation “outsourcing” when in reality what is happening is that China is better at manufacturing than everyone else, and they’re starting to be better than everyone else at design and engineering, too. When we buy software from Silicon Valley or a nice Mercedes Benz from Germany we don’t use this same language “outsourcing.” Colloquially, outsourcing implies low quality or che…

Fair point. Outsourcing was not the right word to use, China today makes products over all quality ranges and almost always they are cheaper than any other alternative. “Giving away” would be a better word.

We leave a large part of the question of where things should be manufactured to the market. If the market decides that the place is China it's probably because they think it's individually beneficial to them, not an act of charity.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#652

Post by reliabilityguy »

lintfordpickle wrote: post #633
reliabilityguy wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all for profit companies are greedy by their nature, but US companies are on a different level because you can 'buy' the government by lobbying or supporting their election campaigns How would you call decades of chinese state-sponsored industrial espionage of western IP? Benevolent act?

> How would you call decades of ... I'd call it a whataboutism

> I'd call it a whataboutism

I would say that saying about anything “whataboutism” is a cheap way out.

China does industrial espionage for the same end goals as American companies work on new things: market domination. So, I find it funny when someone is mad about American companies but not Chinese, while both pursuit the same goals.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#653

Post by reliabilityguy »

throwaw12 wrote: post #634
reliabilityguy wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all for profit companies are greedy by their nature, but US companies are on a different level because you can 'buy' the government by lobbying or supporting their election campaigns How would you call decades of chinese state-sponsored industrial espionage of western IP? Benevolent act?

> How would you call decades of chinese state-sponsored industrial espionage of western IP? Benevolent act? I want to share 3 things here, to think out loud: 1. lets not go too far to the past, because I will say industrial espionage is less harmful than imperialism. Imperialism costed millions of lives across India, Pakistan, African nations, Indonesia and even in China, we are talking about how the West got extreme…

China is imperialist as any other country. They extract resources from others like the British 100 years ago.

This is hilarious that this whole “west is bad” makes people blind.

> Imperialism costed millions of lives

Chinese policies resulted in 10s of millions of their own people dead, and many millions in labor camps today.

Sure, “west is bad” but China “has its problems”.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#654

Post by leptons »

taneq wrote: post #647
rock_artist wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s still one mystery for me. I’m now at the iPhone 16. The performance of those chips with 8GB in non throttled environment (Neo..) can run as a fully performant macOS. Yet, as a phone I don’t feel upgraded performance since my SE 1st gen days. Sometimes I get stuttering, basic browsing can get the device pretty warm, sometime camera lags to launch. My usage profile didn’t change much over the years. So I can on…

Devs pay attention to, and optimise, anything that is painfully slow in their test environment. That’s why we need to test stuff on slow hardware.

Some devs. To think most or even half of all devs do this is a bit overly optomistic.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#655

Post by zelphirkalt »

dirck-norman wrote: post #383
runako wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The total subsidies make up half of the market cap of their entire EV industry. Didn't Tesla essentially stay afloat for years via government subsidies (e.g. government-mandated carbon credits)? Didn't the US only recently end its direct subsidies for EV buyers? Don't US taxpayers provide an enormous ongoing subsidy to ICE vehicles by underwriting the security of the oilfields in the Gulf? Don't US taxpayers in eff…

This is a false equivalence. Adding carbon credits the U.S. is close to 20 billion in EV subsidies. The ENTIRE EU spent 125 billion. China supplied 250 billion to a 400 billion dollar industry and is facing overproduction. It’s dishonest to say it’s the same. Free market capitalism isn’t binary. If that’s what you think, you’re gravely misinformed.

That's the point I guess, it is not binary, but proponents of absolute free markets see it as binary when they are against regulations, and as non-binary, when it is about competition from abroad. They want to have it both ways.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#656

Post by zelphirkalt »

dirck-norman wrote: post #426
runako wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dishonest to say it’s the same. I literally didn't say that it was? In any case, the point is that the US also subsidizes markets, including the auto markets. China is far from unique in this. As you say, free market capitalism isn't binary, and in this case all parties are subsidizing to some degree.

> I literally didn’t say that it was? > and in this case all parties are subsidizing to some degree. Textbook false equivalence.

You seem to understand the meaning of "to some degree" differently than I. To me it implies that subsidies can happen at different amounts, not that they are all the same.

What is an equivalence here is, that the binary flag of "does subsidize" is true, and that equivalence holds.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#657

Post by leptons »

d5lt5 wrote: post #648
re-thc wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> _China doesn't need to invade Taiwan._ All your points consider what China can do but not how others would respond. Blocking Taiwan when the whole AI economy is running on it will invoke lots of countries to go up in arms. There was a quote from US military that it'd cost less to fight than watch Taiwan fall (invasion or not). > 4. China is close to producing industry-grade EUV No where near close. At least not pro…

> All your points consider what China can do but not how others would respond. US backed off last year when there were talks about protecting Taiwan. They pulled Patriot missiles from Taiwan and South Korea too. China and Japan have a beef. Considering the atrocities Japan did in China, the conversation won't be friendly. None of these are good for Taiwan, during the times when its political system is failing. > No w…

>US backed off last year when there were talks about protecting Taiwan. They pulled Patriot missiles from Taiwan and South Korea too.

>US cannot blockade Hormuz, as we've seen. JP cannot do that with their current constitution unless they change it (the current government is on the road to it, though).

If China really wants to fuck with Taiwan, they had better do it soon while the most incompetent US administration ever to hold office is still there. Because there is change coming to the US and the next president isn't likely to be such a complete moron.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#658

Post by zelphirkalt »

oblio wrote: post #256
dirck-norman wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is nowhere near “free market”. Their EV sector received more government subsidies in the last 15 years than the entire U.S. automobile market since inception. The total subsidies make up half of the market cap of their entire EV industry. 250 billion in EV subsidies from China. 10 billion by the U.S.

The US auto industry is also subsidized by all aspects of American life requiring a car outside of NYC and a few big cities.

That's an interesting point actually. Most places in China and even quite rural ones are livable and reachable via public transport including trains. Most of their big cities are very convenient to get around in just by walking and metro or sometimes taking a bus.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#659

Post by throwaw12 »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #653
throwaw12 wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would you call decades of chinese state-sponsored industrial espionage of western IP? Benevolent act? I want to share 3 things here, to think out loud: 1. lets not go too far to the past, because I will say industrial espionage is less harmful than imperialism. Imperialism costed millions of lives across India, Pakistan, African nations, Indonesia and even in China, we are talking about how the West got extreme…

China is imperialist as any other country. They extract resources from others like the British 100 years ago. This is hilarious that this whole “west is bad” makes people blind. > Imperialism costed millions of lives Chinese policies resulted in 10s of millions of their own people dead, and many millions in labor camps today. Sure, “west is bad” but China “has its problems”.

> China is imperialist as any other country.

Sure, but not the way West conducted it, by going and killing generations of people. Look at India, before British colonization they accounted for almost 25% GDP of the world (~1700s), now it is around 3-4%

Or lets look at China itself, before the opium wars and British colonization, it accounted for ~30% of the world GDP, by 1970s it dropped to 4-5%, now climbing back to 20%.

Indonesia would be another example.

You keep defending the West, even though its actions were much worse than "industrial espionage", because you probably live in the West and feel nice about your day to day life and regular things like education feels granted, and not seeing the enormous impact of the West's evil actions to the lives of billions of people around the world in the last 200 years. (US hasn't even stopped yet, see Cuba, Middle Eastern countries)

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#660

Post by leptons »

wasfgwp wrote: post #602
wongarsu wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it'd be the kind of war the US is best at. Boots on the ground, against conventional military, with a civilian population that is on the side of the US forces No guerilla warfare, no insurgents, no need for extended beyond-visual-range warfare that depletes missile stockpiles

> against conventional military, Last time used faced a conventional military that could actually challenge it was in Korea. It won’t have complete areal superiority or entire division surrendering after running into contact with US forces like they in Iraq. “Shock and awe” of course can be very effective just probably not against China. Even now US is running out of materiel against Iran and can’t really sustain a p…

Iran is not a war funded by congress, so it's really no wonder the US appears inneffective. Trump didn't get the support he thought he would from congress and now he's flailing around trying to save face.

Change the leadership (which will happen soon) and when there is actual support from congress to fund and intervene in a conflict in Taiwan, then you will see a vastly different US military response.

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