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Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

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Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#91

Post by ivan_gammel »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #89
ivan_gammel wrote: post #85

Not the first time when the Default Country thinks they invented everything. The title is almost comical. Modern art, as everyone should know, started in 1860s in Europe inspired by technological advances, globalization of trade and cultural exchange. Japanese art made huge blast, photography pushed to seek new forms of expression, social progress demanded new messages and new images. We had impressionism, post-impre…

By "modern art" they mean things like abstract expressionism.

Reduction of modern art to abstract expressionism is the same as reduction of cinema to MCU. Acceptable for a talk over couple beers, disqualifying factor for pretend-to-be intellectuals, mainly because it is cherry-picking based on the scale of a scandal rather than genuine interest in the history of art.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#92

Post by Semkas »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #84
pir8life4me wrote: post #61

Soft power - Russian ballet, Japanese manga, k-pop.

True Soft Power - Hollywood, and associated media industry, which happens to be the platform through which "Russian ballet, Japanese manga, k-pop", etc. reach people. With the Internet and some competing heavy-weights, it may no longer be an US soft superpower it was before, but it still retains its important quality: it's ubiquitous, ever-present, and so enormous it's hard to notice - much like fish don't think much…

K-Pop did not reach people through "Hollywood, and associated media industry", unless you define that category to be meaninglessly broad.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#93

Post by notarobot123 »

mikert89 wrote: post #16

Far more things/movements are orchestrated than are organic. This is to me one of the most surprising things I have learned as I got older.

I assume by "orchestrated" you mean intended by the people involved in making them happen. Humans act in the world. Some people have power and influence that they bring to bear on their activities and desired outcomes. It's true.

That said, there's a tendency (that I think increases as we age) to want to explain everything in terms of order, control and power. Explaining away the world's complexities seems to be a pretty strong human trait.

Maybe the idea of a complex and uncertain world is just too uncomfortable for us to accept.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#94

Post by dgellow »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #89
ivan_gammel wrote: post #85

Not the first time when the Default Country thinks they invented everything. The title is almost comical. Modern art, as everyone should know, started in 1860s in Europe inspired by technological advances, globalization of trade and cultural exchange. Japanese art made huge blast, photography pushed to seek new forms of expression, social progress demanded new messages and new images. We had impressionism, post-impre…

By "modern art" they mean things like abstract expressionism.

Which is even more absurd

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#95

Post by jibal »

vlovich123 wrote: post #54
keiferski wrote: post #43

Pretty embarrassing that this is the title of a post on JSTOR. Modern art started in the late 1800s, long before the CIA or its predecessor existed. Using this term to describe contemporary art, or abstract art more generally, is an (anti?) shibboleth that indicates you don’t really know what you’re talking about. I realize the article is about mid century artists, but I’m certain it’s being upvoted here because peop…

Did you actually read the article? It lays out a pretty compelling case that the CIA established funding sources and magazines to popularize American modern art and make it a worldwide phenomenon / a cultural export to have Americans be taken seriously as taste makers.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

> Don't be curmudgeonly. Thoughtful criticism is fine, but please don't be rigidly or generically negative.

> Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#96

Post by cyberjar »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #85

Not the first time when the Default Country thinks they invented everything. The title is almost comical. Modern art, as everyone should know, started in 1860s in Europe inspired by technological advances, globalization of trade and cultural exchange. Japanese art made huge blast, photography pushed to seek new forms of expression, social progress demanded new messages and new images. We had impressionism, post-impre…

"the Default Country" is a good one. I'll have to start using that.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#97

Post by rcxdude »

sublinear wrote: post #11
colechristensen wrote: post #4

“educate, inspire, and strengthen the hearts and wills of free men.” Funny how times have changed and more or less everyone on every side is fighting for the strength and survival of their own groupthink and little more.

Eventually, people realize they will never agree and therefore don't have to fight. They realize the majority of their beliefs already existed before they were born and will continue on after they're dead. They have nothing to add to the conversation while they are too busy fighting. They turn their focus to developing their ideas peacefully and let their subcultures flourish once again. This isn't the first cycle an…

This is just another 'people should just agree with me' that operates on a meta-level.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#99

Post by dgellow »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #12
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love art. Contemporary art is a bunch of ugly wankery by pretentious people who are bored of actual beauty and can only amuse themselves by creating ugly stuff, then claiming "you just don't get it". The world would be a significantly better place without contemporary art in it.

This could have been written at any point after the 1850s or so.

« Too many notes, your majesty »

https://youtu.be/H6_eqxh-Qok?si=zGXsyHk_XF3Gu2o_

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#100

Post by left-struck »

verisimi wrote: post #66
left-struck wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would fund things which make people less susceptible to manipulation and more equipped to think for themselves. Because I believe in democracy not as a political tool but as a fundamental right. I don’t wish to use democracy to gain more power. But maybe that’s why I’ll never be in that position, to make that choice.

> I would fund things which make people less susceptible to manipulation and more equipped to think for themselves. This also would be manipulative. If you think society can provide you freedom, you are looking in the wrong places.

How would that be manipulative?
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