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Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

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Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#621

Post by cromka »

ahmed_1000 wrote: post #574
throwaw12 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all for profit companies are greedy by their nature, but US companies are on a different level because you can 'buy' the government by lobbying or supporting their election campaigns or break the law and eventually make sure law is changed to fit your business (e.g. first taxi medallions adjusted the law for themselves, and then Uber) Same is very difficult to do in China (look what happened to Jack Ma) or in Europe,…

Thinking there's no corruption in China because Jack Ma got sent to a dungeon for being too mouthy is actually comical

> Same is very difficult

> Thinking there's no corruption

You see what you did here?

> is actually comical

Indeed.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#622

Post by reliabilityguy »

throwaw12 wrote: post #253
ford wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you still believe this considering those companies live and die by the CCP? Would you feel differently if scale was reversed and Meta was the upstart trying to compete with Xiaomi/etc? I'm right there with you questioning Meta's value for society, but I do believe it has less opportunity for abuse/manipulation

> those companies live and die by the CCP I don't care about internal politics of a state, as long as they are not killing people deliberately on a daily basis or invading other countries and killing their people. How government is structured is up to Chinese people to decide > Would you feel differently if scale was reversed and Meta was the upstart trying to compete with Xiaomi/etc? It's not only about scale and up…

> I don't care about internal politics of a state, as long as they are not killing people deliberately

What about forced cultural assimilation and re-education camps? Or, as long as it’s confined to the borders of a country doing so, it is fine?

> How government is structured is up to Chinese people to decide

Funny take given the events of 1989

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#624

Post by menaerus »

tverbeure wrote: post #342
menaerus wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Apple M series ARM chip designs? From what I have seen only resemblance with ARM is the ISA.

What about it? Apple has an architectural license which allows them to design their own CPUs with ARM ISA. Most companies that use ARM CPUs don’t.

Your initial response made it sound as if Xiaomi did nothing wrt chip design and all the hail goes to "ARM engineers" which is simply not true. Had that been true we would have dozens of chip designers which we don't.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#625

Post by reliabilityguy »

throwaw12 wrote: post #304
apparent wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "greedy US corporations" do you mean that these US corporations are uniquely greedy, or that all corporations are greedy, and this is bad for the ones in the US? Do you think that corporations in China, which in many cases are subsidized by the government, are also greedy?

all for profit companies are greedy by their nature, but US companies are on a different level because you can 'buy' the government by lobbying or supporting their election campaigns or break the law and eventually make sure law is changed to fit your business (e.g. first taxi medallions adjusted the law for themselves, and then Uber) Same is very difficult to do in China (look what happened to Jack Ma) or in Europe,…

> all for profit companies are greedy by their nature, but US companies are on a different level because you can 'buy' the government by lobbying or supporting their election campaigns

How would you call decades of chinese state-sponsored industrial espionage of western IP? Benevolent act?

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#626

Post by picture »

ColdStream wrote: post #508
ksec wrote: post #43

This is still an ARM C1-Ultra. Same one used in Mediatek dimensity 9500, which also got more than 4000 points in GB6 lab test. But actual results inside phone with smartphone cooling and wattage requirement became close to 3300. But perhaps the most important thing, Xiaomi is now able to make chip similar to Mediatek. They are the third largest Smartphone manufacturer by shipment volume. And they are still growing. T…

The age old problem of mobile chips have brilliant performance for about 15 seconds until they thermal throttle. If you are just using apps, 15 seconds is more than enough to launch and setup an app, for anything more it will be down graded a little. Still dang impressive but the form factor becomes the limiting factor.

While the other comments are correct to point out that majority of mobile workloads are rush to completion, many users (especially in China) still do a lot of heavy gaming on their phones. This is exactly why the newer SoCs are so interesting- that they can deliver more performance for the same power consumption. (Directly increasing run time and decreasing heating)

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#627

Post by locknitpicker »

ColdStream wrote: post #508
ksec wrote: post #43

This is still an ARM C1-Ultra. Same one used in Mediatek dimensity 9500, which also got more than 4000 points in GB6 lab test. But actual results inside phone with smartphone cooling and wattage requirement became close to 3300. But perhaps the most important thing, Xiaomi is now able to make chip similar to Mediatek. They are the third largest Smartphone manufacturer by shipment volume. And they are still growing. T…

The age old problem of mobile chips have brilliant performance for about 15 seconds until they thermal throttle. If you are just using apps, 15 seconds is more than enough to launch and setup an app, for anything more it will be down graded a little. Still dang impressive but the form factor becomes the limiting factor.

> The age old problem of mobile chips have brilliant performance for about 15 seconds until they thermal throttle.

I think this is a trait of all chips. As a general rule of thumb, both desktop chips and graphics cards come with a huge and noisy fan. Demand for aftermarket solutions is so great that it spawned quite a few specialized companies.

How many high-end laptops ship with at least one fan?

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#628

Post by picture »

Here is an excellent video showing silicon die analysis and comprehensive performance-power curves compared against other leading products. Please skim through it and skip the speculating. https://youtu.be/BCCJuOopLK8

Edit: There are also memory latency charts

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#629

Post by d3Xt3r »

mrheosuper wrote: post #605
d3Xt3r wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of obstacles. The biggest obstacle is having access to the kernel sources. Even if you've got access to the kernel source, driver blobs are a big issue, because if you move to a newer kernel the old drivers may not work. Take a look at the PostmarketOS Device Wiki[1], you'll see that even phones released 10+ years ago (like Xiaomi Redmi 4) still do not have 100% functionality. In saying that, in this era of LLMs…

i'm not kernel dev, but i've heard the folk at kernel always try to maintain a stable API so as not to break backward compatible, is this the case here ?

No, that stability is only promised for userland apps, not kernel-level stuff like drivers. In fact, there is no stable API/ABI for device drivers.

Now this mostly isn't a big issue on the desktop/x86 world, because most drivers are open source, except for some exceptions like certain Broadcom drivers and old nVidia drivers. nVidia used to be a massive headache to deal with because the driver would frequently break with kernel updates, but thankfully that's mostly a thing of the past after they released an open driver, relegating most of the proprietary code to their GSP firmware.

Also, PCs and the x86 platform in general are much more open and hacker-friendly, making it relatively easier to reverse-engineer drivers, so as a result we also have a good chunk of drivers maintained by the community.

So the lack of ABI/API stability isn't a big issue generally in the desktop space.

Now in the embedded/ARM space however, things are very different. Unfortunately due to the precedence set by Google, Apple and earlier mobile vendors, chipset vendors generally don't release their sources; even their architecture documentation is closely guarded and hard to obtain, never mind the sources. And the chipset themselves (like the camera/ISP) are tiny black boxes and hard to debug and reverse engineer. So unless this situation changes (ie, official Linux support from the manufacturers themselves), a simple unlocked bootloader means nothing.

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