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Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

larsfaye.com

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Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#521

Post by [deleted] »

apatheticonion wrote: post #480
larsfaye wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is EXACTLY how I am working with these tools, you summarized everything about why I use this approach perfectly. Zed + OpenCode + Mimo/GLM/Kimi models are incredible. I haven't touched a "frontier model" for months. I really treat them as "delegation layer". They're systems that sit right alongside your stack, and at this point, at every level in it, like a connective tissue that intersects at all points. I can…

I had a job interview at Canva where they had an "AI coding round". They wanted to see how I used AI in my workflow. Because I was using DeepSeek flash, the interviewer was confused at how fast I was getting edits - he'd only used Claude and was used to it thinking for 40 minutes to update a function. We were building a frontend application and I was able to do that whole guided prompt/review loop. I finished the tas…

[deleted]

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#522

Post by looking-for-job »

apatheticonion wrote: post #480
larsfaye wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is EXACTLY how I am working with these tools, you summarized everything about why I use this approach perfectly. Zed + OpenCode + Mimo/GLM/Kimi models are incredible. I haven't touched a "frontier model" for months. I really treat them as "delegation layer". They're systems that sit right alongside your stack, and at this point, at every level in it, like a connective tissue that intersects at all points. I can…

I had a job interview at Canva where they had an "AI coding round". They wanted to see how I used AI in my workflow. Because I was using DeepSeek flash, the interviewer was confused at how fast I was getting edits - he'd only used Claude and was used to it thinking for 40 minutes to update a function. We were building a frontend application and I was able to do that whole guided prompt/review loop. I finished the tas…

[flagged]

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#523

Post by irjustin »

QuantumNoodle wrote: post #506
irjustin wrote: post #491

Yes and that's okay. Very few people know how to read assembly, instruction sets, binary or even transistor combos. All those layers have been "left behind" to become specializations. In many ways coding is always about abstracting and LLMs can be a form of "higher level coding". There's lots of problems with this argument, but it's what's happening and we'll be okay. We've always been.

Tell ya what. Go ahead and prompt your agent to build your next project completely from assembly. Why even bother with the higher level inefficiency since it'll be compiled away. Report back how productive debugging is and the velocity of adding new features to a codebase you can't reason about. Without strong coding fundamental, this is what it will feel like for the future of the profession.

Bun? Of sorts? Hard port to Rust in a week and then merged in? No way they reason about that entire thing.

A business won't die just because an LLM is the only thing that can reason about a particular code base. At least, not like if a company's own engineers couldn't reason about their own code 2 years ago.

I recognize you don't agree with it - our world is changing.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#524

Post by thelastgallon »

ben_w wrote: post #66
ryandvm wrote: post #48

100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…

> That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read this Jira ticket and implement the feature in this code base" isn't really worth $200K/year. Nor even €50k/year. Two things are true: 1) The coding part of my career is over. LLMs are capable of doing everything I've ever been paid to *write*. 2) My actual job also included non-coding work: Does this attempted solution even work at all? Is this solving the…

> 2) My actual job also included non-coding work: Does this attempted solution even work at all? Is this solving the right problem? Even if it's a valid solution to the right problem, is it the best solution given the time constraints?

Unfortunately, this won't be captured by the metrics, because its not easily observable or instrumentable. There will be relentless pressure to use AI and more and more and prove that it is adding value. It won't add value, but whats available to executives is to lower wages and employment. There will be 'success' stories by most VPs that they've been using AI and here is proof (low wages + employment) and trillions of lines of code. LOC has always been a useless metric, but nobody cares.

> At least, I hope this "is a place where my experience is still useful"; I may just be telling myself a nice story, same as all the other people through history who have found themselves obsoleted when the automation came for them.

I don't think there will be more automation (at least not in a productive, helpful way), but a lot more enshittification and success stories of AI. Nobody cares about consumer experience or who is actually using the product.

Almost all CEOs/C-Suite/VPs are far removed from reality, they will do whatever is being hyped right now. Every Corp has had massive DEI initiatives in the previous administration and now anti-DEI in the current administration. Corps were doing blockchain nonsense and now they do AI.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#525

Post by abustamam »

bogdanoff_2 wrote: post #513
matsemann wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before, if I would start working / thinking on a problem and discover it was harder than anticipated, that often was a signal that the feature may not be worth it. Because implementing it doesn't fit the current model of how things work or similar. Then it was back to the drawing table and find a better way of solving the underlying issue. But an LLM just happily chugs along and does it, no one feels the friction, wh…

That's why you first ask the LLM: "tell me how you would do this, and ask me any clarifications and questions you may have, and share any other thoughts you may have. Don't implement yet." The LLM will look through the codebase, think, and tell you what it would do and if there's any design decisions you would have to make, as well as other things you probably need to be aware of. Then you go through the LLM's output…

I like using grill me in conjunction with obra superpowers spec driven development

https://www.aihero.dev/skills-grill-me

https://github.com/obra/superpowers

When I'm doing something quite complex I'll also throw in gstack office hours but I find that its usually overkill for many things

https://github.com/garrytan/gstack

I do often use the /qa skill regardless though. I always hated QA because it was so monotonous and it required a level of organization and creativity i never had (i mean im the developer so if I thought of edge cases id have solved for them)

I like that /qa covers and documents every edge case that it tested and I can nudge it about other ones

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#526

Post by abustamam »

matsemann wrote: post #98
ben_w wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read this Jira ticket and implement the feature in this code base" isn't really worth $200K/year. Nor even €50k/year. Two things are true: 1) The coding part of my career is over. LLMs are capable of doing everything I've ever been paid to *write*. 2) My actual job also included non-coding work: Does this attempted solution even work at all? Is this solving the…

Before, if I would start working / thinking on a problem and discover it was harder than anticipated, that often was a signal that the feature may not be worth it. Because implementing it doesn't fit the current model of how things work or similar. Then it was back to the drawing table and find a better way of solving the underlying issue. But an LLM just happily chugs along and does it, no one feels the friction, wh…

I do agree with you, but I found that with good llm discipline you can prevent the llm from chugging in the wrong direction with a bit of planning and good ol engineering before even talking to the llm.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#527

Post by Seattle3503 »

monkaiju wrote: post #471
Seattle3503 wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you work where there isn't pressure to use agents?

Where I work we actively ban LLM use in development. We're hiring too so if you're willing to live in Salt Lake City...

What industry are you in?

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#528

Post by fsloth »

glouwbug wrote: post #512
fsloth wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"LLMs can't write code worth a damn" I think it depends on the - ahem - context. In my experience they usually can, sometimes they can't. But generally their sense of software architecture remains abysmal, so even if their writing is ok, you need to have architectural authority the very least to guide them.

Unless they can produce the right thing 100% of the time, they require an observer with enough technical merit and experience to validate

Well we would think that wouldn’t we but businesses can be run by people for whose business ”works mostly” is good enough.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#529

Post by fsloth »

CM30 wrote: post #460
izzydata wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that they sometimes can't means you can't have someone who is not a software engineer. Otherwise there is no way to verify whether the LLM wrote correct code or not.

I feel like this depends on the kind of project/work to some degree. Lots of software engineering time is spent on very simple websites, apps and other projects that LLMs have been well trained on. I suspect if you want a static site with a contact form or a CMS theme/plugin, you could probably get a usable result by having some non-technical person plug some prompts into an AI. They wouldn't be able to verify if the…

Yeah configuring whitelabel products for customer’s brand should be right in LLM:s ballpark.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#530

Post by bacteria »

lrvick wrote: post #229
paul7986 wrote: post #5

Are engineers still making 100s of thousands a year still just for vibe coding while a nurse and other skilled / highly trained medical professionals working their butt off make half of that? Do we think there is going to be a correction for the vibe coders? Pardon I know such question is controversial but thinking ahead.

I want a world where teachers on average make more than software engineers. If we figure that out, everything else will be fine in the long run.

Here in germany I would say that the median salary for teachers is quite close to a software developer's one. I know Teachers that earn more/ have more benefits with less work years experience than me. (Not complaining tho, I just hope they put that into good use)
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