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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#691
post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. If I were a small seller I would just ignore this, like many sellers on Temu do. Before you get into trouble, someone must take notice that you did not register for the recipient fiefdom's protectionism racket. And if that happens, it is not sure that you really are in trouble. As with the GDPR, this kind of regulation is almost unenforcable in practice.

It is enforceable and the financial punishment is severe. There's no US’s LLC equivalent in EU, you basically only have C-Corp/Inc. equivalents (much more expensive to start and operate, both because of accounting and corporation income tax), so most small sellers in EU end up fully liable with their own wealth for the ridiculous up to 200,000€ penalties. Chinese sellers don’t care, sure, but if you live in EU you do…

> much more expensive to start and operate, both because of accounting and corporation income tax

Assumption. It depends on the country. I know in the UK I opened my limited company for £20 and there is no requirement to have an accountant prepare accounts at my size (and it's simple enough to do yourself).

Ok UK is no longer EU, but as I understand Ireland LTD, Latvia SIA, Estonia OU and Poland sp. z.o.o. are similar and can be ran as a non-resident.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#692

Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1... None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the disc…

Yes, but the quoted section actually confirms the article’s interpretation. The micro-enterprise exception in the final bullet on page 11 concerns branded packaging when it is initially supplied within a Member State.

"Within a Member State" is an important point here.

The relevant example is the preceding bullet on page 11: when a company fills a box and sends it directly to an end user in another Member State, that company becomes the producer in the destination country. In the article, the Greek maker is that company.

Micro-enterprises receive simplified reporting below 10 tonnes in the regulation, but they are not exempt from registration or destination-country EPR.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno about that. I live in the US. I can start a small business today and the only thing I'd have to do differently is file an additional form on my taxes next year. Yes, that's a simplification that doesn't apply to every situation, but it is still completely accurate.

That's pretty much the situation in the UK if you are a sole trader. If you set up a limited liability company, that's a separate entity and has its own tax reporting requirement, but nothing onerous. I am a sole trader, and manage a small company separately from that. One thing I have heard of in the USA is the need for a "business licence". I'm not sure what that is or whether it applies to all businesses, so I'm n…

That's pretty much the situation in the UK if you are a sole trader. If you set up a limited liability company, that's a separate entity and has its own tax reporting requirement, but nothing onerous.

It's becoming more onerous all the time to run a small business in the UK though.

We just got charged £100 just to essentially tick one box with Companies House saying "nothing changed since last year".

The main tax paperwork is the annual financial statements. These are getting more demanding over the next couple of years with the simplified versions that small companies have been allowed to file looking like they will no longer be acceptable after that time.

You now have to file tax returns like PAYE and VAT using approved software. Most of that software - even the big names - ranges from OK but with significant problems and limitations to simply awful.

I heard recently that personal self assessment tax returns for company directors are about to get more complicated as well.

If you have business premises then you have to deal with business rates. Often these are still based on valuations from a time when dinosaurs roamed the planet. Some small businesses have already closed down due to this becoming unaffordable.

I've lost count of how many different kinds of insurance we now have. All have a cost of course.

If you're working solo or the only person from your company working with a specific customer/client then you need to worry about Off Payroll Working as well. That's still a huge mess of ambiguity decades after IR35 was introduced and likely incurs further expenses for legal reviews and insurance policies that shouldn't even need to exist.

Control any personal data? Make sure you register with the ICO and pay their fee too.

Sell online or even run a website? Make sure you know the requirements for information you have to provide and it's in exactly the right format for compliance. (I've even seen businesses working in the compliance industry failing on this one and risking regulatory sanctions.)

The public sector is increasingly pushing for things like Cyber Essentials if you want to be part of its supply chain. That is an absolutely textbook example of regulations that were clearly written for large businesses using a certain operating system. The only options are 100% compliance or failing and 100% compliance is tricky for sole traders or microbusinesses to achieve without disproportionate expense and administration. If you need the certified version then that's another cost and the disruption of being audited to deal with.

We haven't even talked about everything you have to do if you want to take on employee #1 who isn't one of the founders/owners yet.

I don't think it's realistic to say that the UK is supportive of small businesses today. It never really was but at least the the potential financial benefits used to justify the overheads. Now the taxes are far higher - you end up paying double-digit higher overall rates if you set up a Ltd that can actually grow as a business compared to simply trading as a self-employed sole trader now - and the overheads and costs are also far higher in numerous ways. It's no surprise that people are deterred from going into business here and that's really bad for the country because we need the people willing to take the risks and put in the effort to build the next generation of businesses to support our economy and provide much-needed new jobs.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s unlikely for a lot of reasons, but that’s not one of them given we don’t know what a federalized EU would look like.

We had a federation around here called Yugoslavia and we saw how it played out. Forcing different nations to agree on everything down to things that are basically cultural preferences never worked well. Regulations, bureaucracy and laws are often based on cultural preferences. The EU tries to find a common baseline but still leaves a lot to each member state to avoid this problem.

Lots of federations exists and work perfectly well… including Germany, Switzerland, Canada, Brazil, the US, and more

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#695
post #374
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, though it's not a very difficult challenge. There's still some nonsense here too like for example the TV License

The tv license is a bad example and it's in many ways better than in Germany or France. In the UK you can declare you do not watch any national tv and you forego the tax. No such luxury in Germany where as far as I know you can't avoid it. In France it's funded through vat and of course it's priced in so everyone pays anyway.

One significant problem with the TV licence here in the UK is that the people who end up paying it and the people who actually use the services it pays for are now very different groups. The BBC is heavily funded by TV licence fee payers but also provides numerous radio and online services. Many of those are available even to those without a TV licence. Meanwhile people who use few or no BBC services may still have to pay for a TV licence because they watch something else live but the money they're paying is mostly going to be used to support the BBC.

Also it's a silly little tax that raises relatively little money, incurs significant overheads in collection, suffers from significant non-payment, and has an aggressive enforcement operation that should clearly be illegal itself for the way it behaves.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has no major AI player at all So? Will major AI players introduce universal healthcare in US? Or is it coming along with AGI which is why it should be the most important to every citizen? Or maybe EU citizens should all band together and stop being lazy and go to having 0 mandatory vacation days? Reminds of me very old USSR joke which was basically "we have rockets in space, and don't have sausages in stores".

> So? Will major AI players introduce universal healthcare in US? We don't want universal healthcare, 6-month to one-year waits for routine operations, having to beg doctors for prescriptions, massive tax hikes to pay for all of that while disincentivizing people from working and keeping jobs.

This is such an American take.

If you're unhappy with the wait time then get private insurance and go to a private doctor, just like you would in the US. But if you're too poor for that, at least you get something in six to twelve months instead of nothing or bankruptcy. And your insurance will be much much less because you're getting most of what you need publicly. Your US insurance is in the order of three to five times as much as private insurance in the EU, so your taxes are lower, but your costs are too.

The real problem always seems to be that universal health care would leave rich Americans worse off (higher taxes), would likely be about a wash for most middle earners (higher taxes, but none/less health care costs), but would leave the poor significantly better off (who are totally stiffed in the US at the moment).

So, by saying you don't want universal health care you're effectively saying that you're rich enough that you don't care about it, and you don't want poor people to be able to get health care at all, and if some die early or go bankrupt at least it isn't your problem.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#697
post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could EU just ask DHL/Hermes/whatever to charge an additional €1 "for recycling"? Yes, but... Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China. And in Austria we will soon pay additional ~€2 for every delivered package. And 20% VAT. Edit: I am pretty sure at least some part of these already contribute towards recycling. The goal here is likely not just to get more funding for recycling, but rather to use materia…

DHL charges 1 eur for recycling, which it pockets since the envelope or box with thr product went to the consumer... who throws it away to the segregated garbage bin - for which every consumer also pays.

The taxes levied also go into the general government fund. Which means they mostly go to paying pensions and social security (unemployment, medical insurance, long-term medical leave, ...)

(... and that is really why this is so staunchly defended)

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#698
post #441
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't asking for a "single set of laws". "Single market" however is a pre-existing concept recognized as "one of the EU's greatest achievements" [1], and lacking regulations in providing said market is what their critique was about. [1] https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market_en

> "one of the EU's greatest achievements" And it is! People here are always complaining about the EU as if it's a single state, even though it's very clearly in the process of becoming one. It's a long road, we're not sure if we're going to make it all the way to the finish line (but I suspect we will), and we're going to have some happy little (and big) mistakes along the way. But for now it's imperfect, and it migh…

> It's still a lot better than not having it

In this case no, it would be a lot easier to make business without the EU than with it.

Having the EU should make things better and easier, not harder and worse, for the members of said EU.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#699
post #612

Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1... None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the disc…

Simply not true. The helpful diagram you refer to does not consider the case where company A manufactures the packaging, company B buys the packaging, and then does a B2C delivery to another member state. In that case company B is the producer, even if B is a "micro-enterprise". > the discussion here seems to have a lot of people who are in a big rush to demonize their perceived political opponents on ideological gro…

This whole discussion is the reason innovation it's dead in Europe. The regulations are so complex that you need a team dedicated to navigating the bureaucracy nonsense. Small companies and startups can't do that.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#700
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I used to sell objects on Amazon in Europe. You can sell from just one country, but then each sale outside of that country is an "export" that triggers high fees. For sales to be "local", products need to be stored in warehouses in each country. But that in turn means the owner of said products (the seller) has to be registered for VAT in that country, and submitting annual reports in each country's language. I…

Indeed, and that's why we need more EU, not less of it.

You mean, it's good to have _even more_ bad regulations?

Or rather, if a little bit of X is bad, why would you want more of X?

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