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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#171

Post by 21asdffdsa12 »

bpodgursky wrote: post #131
greenraven wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part This is by design. It’s the same all over the world. The wealthy are not going to just let you compete

The US is wealthier, has more billionaires and has fewer of these barriers for small entrepreneurs. So no, this is not the monocausal explanation that applies equally everywhere. (YES, the US has regulatory capture, YES the wealthy attempt to use it, YES we should try to eliminate it here too, but it remains true that it is easier to run a small business in the US, while having more billionaires. There are other expl…

Agreed, europe has a culture of "stability" first. The fear of disruption and chaos is larger after two WW and it outsourced the risks of disruption to the US. Basically, use the us as a test-mouse for new ideas and innovations, then when proven safe introduce them and ride those coat-tails to infinity.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#172

Post by throw-the-towel »

matt-p wrote: post #66
zarzavat wrote: post #7

It is possible to ignore laws if it's too much bother to comply with them... it's hard to imagine the authorities will come after someone for mailing out 10 anti-static bags.

Maybe it's super convenient for you in the moment, but the aggregate effect is pretty bad. If everyone just ignores laws because they're too much hassle and they don't expect to get caught, enforcement becomes incredibly difficult. You end up with loads of laws that technically exist but are only selectively enforced, which is a pretty serious problem.

How would you then have backpressure against bad laws?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#173

Post by mytailorisrich »

matt-p wrote: post #106

UK has similar rules but, as with pretty much all other similar regulations, there are de minimis carve-outs: ≤ £1m turnover: no packaging EPR obligation, regardless of packaging volume. £1m turnover + >25 tonnes of packaging: small producer obligations. £2m turnover + >50 tonnes: large producer obligations. The EU has been removing de minimis thresholds because 'China' can easily 'exploit' them. They're kind of righ…

The UK tends to be much more sensible than the EU and the main EU countries (France, Germany, Italy).

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#174

Post by srg0 »

It appears there is space for "packaging and distribution in EU as a service" business model.

Creators, producers and manufacturers in many fields do not distribute or sell directly to consumers (musicians can't directly upload to Spotify and Apple Music; film producers don't upload to Netflix, writers don't print their books).

A small-time maker may pay a fee to the established distributor of the physical products, who takes care of compliance, and uses their packaging and distribution channels.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#175

Post by monegator »

argentinian wrote: post #162
greenraven wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part This is by design. It’s the same all over the world. The wealthy are not going to just let you compete

Laws are voted by politicians. Do you mean that most EU politicians are puppets of EU corporations?

It's usually US corpos that are lobbying all over the EU, it's unlikely that the EU automakers would have lobbied for their destruction

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#176

Post by latexr »

ionwake wrote: post #149
latexr wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please look it up You’re the one making the claim, so please provide sources for your fantastical scenario. By your logic there should be no small coffee shops across the EU, yet this is verifiably and patently untrue.

You should do your own research and I don’t want to take up space on HN but I’m happy to take a look can you name what exactly you found hard to believe? It’s been known for decades small business can’t survive legal landscape as easily as large corps. If you are confused by the statement there are no small coffee shops - are you living in Europe? From first hand experience coffee shops survive less than a couple yea…

> You should do your own research

Sure, but you should also understand that “look it up” is the escape words of every inane claim. “The Earth is flat, look it up”; “Reptilians are controlling the world, do your own research”; “Bill Gates is injecting you with mind-control chips, google it”.

You can “do your own research” and “confirm” anything. Which is why the person making the original claim should provide sources, so we can all discuss the same thing and not talk past each other. If your sources are flawed, it’s much easier to reach that conclusion if we’re all looking at the same thing.

> I don’t want to take up space on HN

Don’t worry, a few characters won’t make a difference.

> I’m happy to take a look

Thank you.

> can you name what exactly you found hard to believe?

Certainly. It’s paragraphs 5–8 in your original post. The claim that there are random troublemakers regularly employing free national non-profit corporations in the EU to extort and bankrupt local coffee shops by lying about having been ejected for racial reasons.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#177

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

greenraven wrote: post #82
yardie wrote: post #29

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed…

> It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part This is by design. It’s the same all over the world. The wealthy are not going to just let you compete

Dunno about that. I live in the US. I can start a small business today and the only thing I'd have to do differently is file an additional form on my taxes next year. Yes, that's a simplification that doesn't apply to every situation, but it is still completely accurate.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#178

Post by Lumaestro »

caseysoftware wrote: post #52
zarzavat wrote: post #7

It is possible to ignore laws if it's too much bother to comply with them... it's hard to imagine the authorities will come after someone for mailing out 10 anti-static bags.

That's a very American mindset. I've worked across both the US and EU at a variety of companies with customers, partners, etc and it's a clear pattern: - Americans are usually willing to skirt the rules and figure it out later. This comes with risk but is ideal when you're early stage, low stakes, and you couldn't follow the rules anyway. - Europeans absolutely want to do it by the book and will be shocked if you sug…

Depends on what Europe you mean. Europe can be quite different depending on where you are. I wouldn't say northern Europe wants to do it by the book all the time like the Germans.

Quite common to view Europe as all the same, but Europe varies much more than what US does.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#179

Post by carlosjobim »

troupo wrote: post #107
philipallstar wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there would no end of "EU is trampling national interests" and similar screaming To just call this "screaming" is to completely dismiss a real and huge problem. The EU is the idea that countries should fuse into economic areas, but the countries are also individual still. Of course there's a lot of friction. For example, because Greece was in the Euro, they couldn't inflate their currency to compensate for the fact…

So you've described Greece as a bunch of scheming petulant children. "Our plan to be inaccountable didn't work, so we'll try a different scheme instead". And yes, it's a huge problem. That's why I called the situation unwinnable.

No, the Greeks were cool and calculating, turning an inflating fake fiat currency into hard assets like real estate, while not working or producing anything.

The introduction of the Euro was the start signal for each country to try to inflate as much as they can for their own benefit - since the first inflator gets the best value out of the currency. Idiots are left holding paper currency worth less and less each day. Having to work harder and harder in a never ending spiral.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#180

Post by dragochat »

oblio wrote: post #30

This is a direct result of national politics. EU member states want all the benefits of integration without giving anything up, especially things that they consider aspects of national sovereignty. * * * I'll give you an example. I'm from Romania. In Romania in 1990 there were no private enterprises, so everything was state owned. There was a HUGE demand for commerce/retail, so small local businesses popped up. They…

TL;DR in EU, "strong" countries protected their national companies; weaker or smaller ones didn't

=> short term gain, free profits for eg FR or DE companies being allowed to devour other smaller countrie's markets

=> big country corpos get used to "almost free lunch"

=> big EU corpos fail to innovated and become uncompetitive globally

=> US ans CN corpos try instead to come with their increased efficiency and innovation at the EU market

=> EU freaks out and throws random restrictions and fines and regulations

=> only the most aggressive and ruthless CN (Temu etc) and US companies get through

=> they mostly rape the s out of EU markets

=> EU tries to protect its markets but its institutions have been regulatorly captured

=> [dark spiral goes on and on...]

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