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Where did all the public bathrooms go?

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421–430 of 873 posts

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#421
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right about who is causing the damage etc. but the 'commons' does not refer to the people; it refers to the shared resource. So a public park is the commons. And when it gets polluted with plastic rubbish etc. because externalities are not internalized that's a tragedy of the commons.

The fallacy in "the tragedy of the commons" is that there's something inherent in having a shared resource that dooms the shared resource. At least this is the popular understanding. And I'll add that if we look at shared resources both with more breadth -- e.g. across history and cultures -- and in more depth -- e.g. cross-analysis, they come out looking much more successful than you'd think.

That isn’t what the tragedy of the commons is. It isn’t about something inherent in having a shared resource that dooms it.

It is about the idea that when there is a limited, shared public resource, individuals making rational self-interested decisions will often lead to a situation which no individual would choose.

That doesn’t mean it always has to end in tragedy, though. It just means you can’t just go fully “laissez faire” and let everyone do whatever they want, and expect the common to be preserved. The only way to protect the common is to take some sort of collective action; pass a law that limits how much an individual can take from the common, or set a quota and allow people to bid, etc.

The collective action doesn’t even always have to be a legislative action; you could create a taboo around using too much of a common, or use social shaming to get people to only use their share.

The point is that you have to take SOME collective action to prevent the tragedy.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#422
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We did as little as possible to deal with homelessness and mental illness SF would beg to differ. They have a budget of $100k per homeless person. They can't solve the problem because the problem is not money

I assure you, if they stopped spending that money tomorrow, things would get dramatically worse, as all the people that money keeps off the streets would be on them.

Do they spend $100,000 per homeless person in Europe and Asia? If not, why don't they have similar problems?

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#424
post #20

I was in France recently and used a public restroom. It had an attendant, and a fee of €0.50. Charging for the restroom is unfortunate, but this setup is certainly better than eliminating public restrooms entirely.

The 50 cents is dual purpose, the one is obvious in that it pays for the attendant and them keeping it clean, but the other is like using a coin to unlock a trolley, it cuts back misuse by a lot. Once you've been to free vs 50 cent toilets a few times you'll see (and smell) the difference.

manning the loo in a developed country would be a much higher expense, and that too if you can convince someone to do it.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States is certainly part of the west, and we incarcerate people at a higher rate than any other advanced nation, BY FAR. The idea that we are soft on crime is insane. Harsher punishments do not lead to lower crime.

[flagged]

It would not stop crimes committed by the people in charge of enforcing the draconian punishments.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We did as little as possible to deal with homelessness and mental illness SF would beg to differ. They have a budget of $100k per homeless person. They can't solve the problem because the problem is not money

What do you suggest the solution is?

[flagged]

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#428
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I lived for many years in China and Thailand, and toilets are free, clean, and plentiful there I don't know about China but this was the opposite of my experience in Thailand. The majority of public toilets I encountered had an attendant you had to pay for access. Shopping malls / hotels / other places were you were already paying to be there were the exception of course.

In Japan, I've seen attendants looking for some payment to use bathrooms in hotels.

I think you just stumbled upon a one-off. I've lived here my entire adult life and never encountered this.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diabetics use short needle subcutaneous syringes that can be recapped and disposed of later. They have to have their insulin stored somewhere, which is just as suitable for a used syringe.

[flagged]

Why? Who's that?

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#430
post #294

Lack of bathrooms has been called tragedy of the commons in this thread, but it's not the "commons" that are the problem. The worst 10% of society determine what we can and can't have. The "commons" aren't having public sex, shooting up drugs, or destroying the bathrooms with lack of... etiquette. The commons are victimized when these things happen and then there's eventually no choice but to shut them down unless th…

I don't think I quite agree with that. Virtually all offices I've worked in, the bathrooms have been less than ideally used by colleagues. The people you'd class as 'commons' may not be having public sex, shooting up drugs, but many can be dirty and/or selfish. And this is in an office where cleaners regularly clean the facilities (I'd hazard more frequently than public toilets are cleaned). There's always be pee on…

The distribution in those offices is probably the same, a small percentage of people cause almost all the nastiness.
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