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Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

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Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, this is a bit too far xD. But I wouldn’t put this in the same bucket as Pollock. I genuinely find his work interesting.

Modern art is weird. https://smarthistory.org/andres-serrano-piss-christ/

That's postmodern art, not modern art.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#33
post #18

I don’t know if this is a reaction to AI or something, but recently I’ve only been interested in classical/realism art. I just can’t do abstract cubes anymore. The default wallpaper of windows 11 is a perfect example - I hate it. Give me a wallpaper of some painting from the Renaissance.

Kinda paradox because AI seems better at replicating complex classic paintings and realism than rather simple modern parametric imagery.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#34
post #2

And here I was thinking any psyop was necessarily bad.

The leadership of nations requires you to put pressure on the thoughts and minds of your people, left to their own devices those minds will simply be shaped by someone else. The morality in it comes from your motivation and methods. Secretly giving piles of money to the weirdos you successfully identify as being the leaders of artistic movements to amplify those movements can't be all that bad. The question of the da…

I would fund things which make people less susceptible to manipulation and more equipped to think for themselves.

Because I believe in democracy not as a political tool but as a fundamental right. I don’t wish to use democracy to gain more power.

But maybe that’s why I’ll never be in that position, to make that choice.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#35
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not appreciate art?

I love art. Contemporary art is a bunch of ugly wankery by pretentious people who are bored of actual beauty and can only amuse themselves by creating ugly stuff, then claiming "you just don't get it". The world would be a significantly better place without contemporary art in it.

If there is any change I could make to the human personality at large it would be the reflexive opinion that anything you don't understand, or even dislike, is automatically morally wrong.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#36

Betteridge’s law prevails. A fun read, but not as fun as the title suggests. tl;dr Modern art existed before the CIA and even CIA predecessors did not originate it, but they did push it abroad to show that America is great because we put up with modern art made by socialists depite most americans disliking both the art and the artists

The interesting thing to me is, despite it being hard to imagine today, back then this was actually a strange thing, and did actually serve as a demonstration of American freedom of expression.

Hard to imagine today because this kind of weird art comes from just about everywhere with a few exceptions now.

Interesting to read about how it actually was the work of a few elite institutions that made this happen. Agreed the CIA angle is a bit weak, to me it's more a story about the Rockefellers and their compatriots who funded this stuff.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern art is weird. https://smarthistory.org/andres-serrano-piss-christ/

That's postmodern art, not modern art.

I agree. All I see here is someone following in the footsteps of pioneers such as Andy Warhol. His own pink banana was very polarizing in his time.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#38

Far more things/movements are orchestrated than are organic. This is to me one of the most surprising things I have learned as I got older.

I am starting to be under the impression that movements are steered by leaders but formed only when the underlying conditions are present. No single element can make the movement.

I am reluctant to believe stories like "The CIA created modern art", as it is just a single part, although a very influential part, of the movement.

I say this as somebody who is very cautious about believing anything and am quick to call things (probably incorrectly) propaganda or disseminated by paid actors.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#39
post #2

And here I was thinking any psyop was necessarily bad.

The leadership of nations requires you to put pressure on the thoughts and minds of your people, left to their own devices those minds will simply be shaped by someone else. The morality in it comes from your motivation and methods. Secretly giving piles of money to the weirdos you successfully identify as being the leaders of artistic movements to amplify those movements can't be all that bad. The question of the da…

I wouldn’t because the CIA is explicitly barred by Congress (Title 50 U.S.C. § 3093) from conducting influence operations intended to affect American public opinion since the Intelligence Authorization Act of 1991.

Re: Was modern art a CIA psy-op? (2020)

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love art. Contemporary art is a bunch of ugly wankery by pretentious people who are bored of actual beauty and can only amuse themselves by creating ugly stuff, then claiming "you just don't get it". The world would be a significantly better place without contemporary art in it.

This could have been written at any point after the 1850s or so.

1850? I wager we could go all the way back if we tried.

> (…) the Italian artist and writer Giorgio Vasari,who used it as early as 1530, calling Gothic art a "monstrous and barbarous" "disorder".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_art

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