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Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

smithsonianmag.com

71–80 of 195 posts

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#71
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, they have the highest ratio of brain-to-body-mass of any invertebrate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

The flip side is that they have very short lives. But I can see space aliens saying the same thing about humans.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#72
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, they have the highest ratio of brain-to-body-mass of any invertebrate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

Octopi essentially consent. They are avid cannibals. In the octopi universe eating an octopi is clearly ok.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#73
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many of these "self-reported" vegans were true ethical vegans vs instgram influencer, "I eat chicken once a week" vegans. Also, what's your point? Is there a proven direct correlation between ethics/morals and educational level? And even if there were, does that imply that this less educated group is as a whole completely wrong? And are you implying that ethics and morals were even objective and measurea…

The linked study does show that correlation. But I personally believe it’s more of a second-order effect. Vegetarianism selects for openness and analytical/reflective thinking but the extra step to veganism selects for absolutism/purity and rigid category-based thinking. Reflective thinking and openness are definitely correlated to IQ so I believe the result in the article. The point here is to know your audience. Th…

> Vegetarianism selects for openness and analytical/reflective thinking but the extra step to veganism selects for absolutism/purity

I don't follow how you conclude this at all. there is nothing to indicate this is the case.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#74
post #65
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28926931/ > Compared with meat-eaters, vegetarians were more likely to have a higher educational level, whereas vegans had a lower education level I think it’s good to question these things but the people who go full black/white on everything is where that whole movement died. Saying something strong like “eating any meat” will generally not win over hackers. But “we won’t bring cows t…

> Compared with meat-eaters, vegetarians were more likely to have a higher educational level, whereas vegans had a lower education level this is such a... wrong conclusion to make from the study. the study has found a correlation and by no means is it a causation. there are so many cultural, societal reasons for this to be the case. (eg. in india, upper caste people are usually vegetarians who generally have more acc…

Except that the study is from France?

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

Octopi essentially consent. They are avid cannibals. In the octopi universe eating an octopi is clearly ok.

is there a case for a long lived animal being a cannibal? I would imagine that prion risk will select for aversion.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#76
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Compared with meat-eaters, vegetarians were more likely to have a higher educational level, whereas vegans had a lower education level this is such a... wrong conclusion to make from the study. the study has found a correlation and by no means is it a causation. there are so many cultural, societal reasons for this to be the case. (eg. in india, upper caste people are usually vegetarians who generally have more acc…

Except that the study is from France?

it was an example of a correlation != causation

the parent comment was basically creating a causational logic for why vegetarians are more likely to be "smart"-er. which is not true.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#77
post #6

I would imagine their intelligence is directly proportional to the so many degrees of freedom the arms have for grasping, but don't ask which one came first, chicken or egg?

most likely the enormous control surfaces their biology acquired required distributed neuronal mass and once that mass existed further intelligence became advantageous because it was a minor change at that point (switches during embryology increasing neuron counts and other aspects).

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like 9 brains, one central one in the head and 8 semi-autonomous ones in the arms. Makes one wonder what an octopus consciousness is like. Is it distributed among the nine brains, or focused on the central one? If the latter then the arm-brains would be zombie minds. It's also possible the 8 arms have their own separate experiences. We also have a nervous system distributed throughout our bodies, so we do experi…

> We also have a nervous system distributed throughout our bodies, so we do experience the full body, but the neural signals are sent to one location, not nine. Mostly yes. But we do have some processing that bypasses the brain: reflexes for example. The classic example is the kick reflex that doctors test with a small mallet on your knee. Or when you blink as something flies towards your eyes. It happens and your br…

>to the breath which will be on autopilot until you take control over it

Thank you for making me breath manually.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#79
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though FWIW, they do protect their eggs quite well.

Isn't this tied to the senesce? Where their digestive tract has closed and they starve to death at the nest

Indeed, AFAIK. I've never seen an explanation for this. Most things that reproduce successfully want to do it again - or at least their DNA does. Perhaps octopuses are simply disappointed by the experience.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like 9 brains, one central one in the head and 8 semi-autonomous ones in the arms. Makes one wonder what an octopus consciousness is like. Is it distributed among the nine brains, or focused on the central one? If the latter then the arm-brains would be zombie minds. It's also possible the 8 arms have their own separate experiences. We also have a nervous system distributed throughout our bodies, so we do experi…

> We also have a nervous system distributed throughout our bodies, so we do experience the full body, but the neural signals are sent to one location, not nine. Mostly yes. But we do have some processing that bypasses the brain: reflexes for example. The classic example is the kick reflex that doctors test with a small mallet on your knee. Or when you blink as something flies towards your eyes. It happens and your br…

I don't know if you could consider what the AV node in the heart does as "processing". It's more like a clock, to my understanding.
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