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Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#51

Post by idiotsecant »

goatlover wrote: post #7
BatFastard wrote: post #4

I found the article very interesting. Not click bait at all. I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body.

It's like 9 brains, one central one in the head and 8 semi-autonomous ones in the arms. Makes one wonder what an octopus consciousness is like. Is it distributed among the nine brains, or focused on the central one? If the latter then the arm-brains would be zombie minds. It's also possible the 8 arms have their own separate experiences. We also have a nervous system distributed throughout our bodies, so we do experi…

How sure are you that you have a unified embodied experience? Have you ever caught an unexpected ball? Run (I mean, really run)? There are a lot of situations where you conscious self isn't in charge so much as it is a really good storyteller convincing 'you' that you've done something yourself that you had no part in. Cut the interface between brain hemispheres and 'you' will still have the absolute self assurance that 'you' are the one in charge.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#52

Post by mc32 »

slowin wrote: post #43
unethical_ban wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot judge too harshly, since I still eat many kinds of animal. However, I never ate octopus growing up, and I learned of their intelligence before I tried it more than a few times. It was easier to "never start" than to quit. And besides, octopus is not that great and if you insist on eating seafood I find pretty much any other item to have more enjoyable texture.

Octopus is the only animal I've ever stopped eating due to ethical concerns (not that I'm against examining my relationship with other animals). That being said, it's really delicious if you get it fresh. It just so happens that it's very rare (in the US) to get fresh octopus. I liked tako nigiri and grilled octopus, Mediterranean style. The taste and texture difference between fresh and not fresh is huge though. Pro…

Some people enjoy eating live baby octopuses. To me that is an odd delicacy -but then some Americans like shucking Oysters too, so I can't be critical.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#53

Post by pitched »

suriyaG wrote: post #42
hermitcrab wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). octopus passing a intelligence test does not keep it above the fold, neither does cattle go below the fold because they don't clear the bar (surprise, cattle are equally emotional, smart, curious etc.). sounds wrong when I type it out but that is just the truth. milk is actually more ethically wrong when you think about it (…

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28926931/

> Compared with meat-eaters, vegetarians were more likely to have a higher educational level, whereas vegans had a lower education level

I think it’s good to question these things but the people who go full black/white on everything is where that whole movement died. Saying something strong like “eating any meat” will generally not win over hackers. But “we won’t bring cows to Mars” might work better.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#54

Post by King-Aaron »

bayganyo wrote: post #16
hermitcrab wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

I find it interesting how people justify (or not) whether to eat another animal.

Personally that justification is based heavily on the taste.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#55

Post by King-Aaron »

colechristensen wrote: post #37
GMoromisato wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife stopped eating octopus after seeing the giant Pacific octopus in the Monterey aquarium. The way it stares at you hints at a real intelligence. Maybe the smaller species aren't that smart, but why take the chance?

I'm pretty convinced we could discuss philosophy with octopus friends if they didn't all die immediately after reproducing.

Don't kid yourself Jimmy, if an octopus ever got the chance he'd eat you and everyone you cared about!

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#56

Post by perfmode »

goatlover wrote: post #7
BatFastard wrote: post #4

I found the article very interesting. Not click bait at all. I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body.

It's like 9 brains, one central one in the head and 8 semi-autonomous ones in the arms. Makes one wonder what an octopus consciousness is like. Is it distributed among the nine brains, or focused on the central one? If the latter then the arm-brains would be zombie minds. It's also possible the 8 arms have their own separate experiences. We also have a nervous system distributed throughout our bodies, so we do experi…

Mind != Consciousness

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#57

Post by colechristensen »

King-Aaron wrote: post #55
colechristensen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty convinced we could discuss philosophy with octopus friends if they didn't all die immediately after reproducing.

Don't kid yourself Jimmy, if an octopus ever got the chance he'd eat you and everyone you cared about!

So would a primitive human.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#58

Post by colordrops »

pitched wrote: post #53
suriyaG wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). octopus passing a intelligence test does not keep it above the fold, neither does cattle go below the fold because they don't clear the bar (surprise, cattle are equally emotional, smart, curious etc.). sounds wrong when I type it out but that is just the truth. milk is actually more ethically wrong when you think about it (…

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28926931/ > Compared with meat-eaters, vegetarians were more likely to have a higher educational level, whereas vegans had a lower education level I think it’s good to question these things but the people who go full black/white on everything is where that whole movement died. Saying something strong like “eating any meat” will generally not win over hackers. But “we won’t bring cows t…

I wonder how many of these "self-reported" vegans were true ethical vegans vs instgram influencer, "I eat chicken once a week" vegans.

Also, what's your point? Is there a proven direct correlation between ethics/morals and educational level? And even if there were, does that imply that this less educated group is as a whole completely wrong? And are you implying that ethics and morals were even objective and measureable? I mean, completely no idea what you are getting at here.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#59

Post by colordrops »

hermitcrab wrote: post #9
ortusdux wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, they have the highest ratio of brain-to-body-mass of any invertebrate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

I hope people say the same about all animals, but especially mammals.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#60

Post by 47635274172635 »

suriyaG wrote: post #42
hermitcrab wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). octopus passing a intelligence test does not keep it above the fold, neither does cattle go below the fold because they don't clear the bar (surprise, cattle are equally emotional, smart, curious etc.). sounds wrong when I type it out but that is just the truth. milk is actually more ethically wrong when you think about it (…

>eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat).

I think this is very wrong. Doesn't account for when you don't have a choice, to be healthy. You need to eat more, you need to consider all possible situations, construction work people need to sustain all that physical labor somehow. It's a more serious chore to even attempt to build a non meat based diet, let alone sourcing everything.

If we could have a healthy alternative that accounts for everything (taste included) then maybe you can make that argument. Until then it's quite shortsighted and ignorant.

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