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Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

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Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#541

Post by geysersam »

rayoleary wrote: post #528
geysersam wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it quite strange en people take a development that has happened over the last ~50 years, little more than half a lifetime, and confidently state that now "it will always stay like this". Things always change. Imagine what those kinds of people would have said in China in the 70s, with western industries being vastly more advanced and efficient. "It's over, we will never catch up." they would probably have said…

What are en People?

Thanks, should've been "when"

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#542

Post by mrheosuper »

mschuetz wrote: post #266
bee_rider wrote: post #199

Apple is the least interesting company to compare against. They are in their own MacOS/iOS software ecosystem, which you want if you want and you don’t if you don’t. Not to be dismissive of either side of that, there are legit reasons to stay in or out of Apple’s ecosystem. But benchmarking points is not a reason anyone would switch operating systems, right? What OS will these chips run and what is the competition on…

Not at all. I specifically bought a MacBook Air M4, first Mac product in my life, for its fantastic performance in a passively cooled notebook. I have zero loyalty to Apple and usually use Windows. If someone else starts beating them perf wise, I'll happily switch again.

The air m4 is really the best sub-thousand-dollar laptop.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#543

Post by mrheosuper »

calf wrote: post #250

If Moore's law is truly ending as is generally believed, then it seems logically inevitable that the entire industry will flatten out and equalize. Or, I am oversimplifying something.

It's already flattening out. The rate of progress is much faster in 90-00s then now.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#544

Post by antris »

gnfargbl wrote: post #353
Brybry wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xiaomi's Xring O3 is manufactured by TSMC N3P process in Taiwan. [1] MediaTek Dimensity 9500 is also manufactured by TSMC N3P process in Taiwan. [2] There was no world interdependence change (unless one considers China and Taiwan to be the same countries). [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-launches-XRing-O3-claim... [2] https://www.notebookcheck.net/MediaTek-Dimensity-9500-Proces...

> unless one considers China and Taiwan to be the same countries The fact that the CCP is relaxed about core Chinese companies running their manufacturing in Taiwan might suggest that the CCP considers that it can make China and Taiwan one country, at a time of the CCP's choosing.

China and Taiwan are considered one country, even according to US https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12503

How do you make one country into one country? It's already one country and is treated as such by even countries that consider China an adversary

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#545

Post by klausa »

scarab92 wrote: post #474
wongarsu wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the plan is to defend, with allies motivated by the goal of saving TSMC facilities. If you destroy them the moment China declares war, Taiwanese allies might be much less invested But at the same time everyone understands that the Taiwanese would destroy the facilities before they fall into Chinese hands

Why would China care if Taiwan blows up its fabs? The talent is still there, so they could rebuild, or recruit the talent to work for Chinese mainland fabs instead?

> The talent is still there, so they could rebuild, or recruit the talent to work for Chinese mainland fabs instead?

Would you voluntarily work in a country that invaded and taken over yours?

Would you ask the same about Russia recruiting Ukrainians?

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#546

Post by twobitshifter »

dirck-norman wrote: post #244
testing22321 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO of Ford directly said if Chinese EVs are allowed into the US it will be the end of US auto manufacturing. They know they are inferior, and choose not to compete, just lobby for more regulations to keep competitors out. Free market, haha.

China is nowhere near “free market”. Their EV sector received more government subsidies in the last 15 years than the entire U.S. automobile market since inception. The total subsidies make up half of the market cap of their entire EV industry. 250 billion in EV subsidies from China. 10 billion by the U.S.

Isn’t this just good strategy? Shouldn’t government subsidize the things it wants more of?

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#547

Post by dannyw »

MBCook wrote: post #238
LPisGood wrote: post #180

Suspiciously ignored is power consumption. That’s the biggest and most useful metric often ignored because it’s less flashy than speed.

Good question. I’m sure Apple’s chips could do better in single core if they were willing to push the power envelope way higher too. Multi-core is easy to beat, just add more cores until you win. There were already chips that beat the M series just by having way more threads/cores.

Apple’s devices generally have no or very underpowered thermal solutions; but it also partly regulates battery life.

(Seriously, they rely on air cooling for Neo and MBA — these chips hit 105deg easily and throttle, intentionally)

Adding a thermal pad to a Neo or MacBook Air gives significant boosts peak and sustained performance; whether in benchmarks or real world video renders; but it also reduces your battery life by a little, as there’s less thermal throttling forcing wattage down.

And no, the battery is not connected to the chassis (heatsink), it doesn’t have increased temps.

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#548

Post by russli1993 »

ezekiel68 wrote: post #429
trynumber9 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a nuance: Xiaomi is not Huawei. They were not sanctioned. This chip is made in Taiwan like all the non-Samsung competition.

Argh -- perfectly read. I was thinking of Huawei.

Huawei is launching a mobile soc built with logic folding. They take a single logic ip, like a cpu, and spread it's components across to dies and use hybrid bonding to combine top to bottom. For example the CPU SRAM on top and logic gates directly below. This reduces critical path, increases fmax, reduces power consumption. They claim this method allow them build faster, more power efficient, more function units with duv process than traditional duv. Will be interesting to benchmark after launch later this year

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#549

Post by deadfoxygrandpa »

wongarsu wrote: post #452
palata wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there some kind of "if you invade us we bomb our strategic factories" strategy? Like "if we can't have them, nobody can"?

I think the plan is to defend, with allies motivated by the goal of saving TSMC facilities. If you destroy them the moment China declares war, Taiwanese allies might be much less invested But at the same time everyone understands that the Taiwanese would destroy the facilities before they fall into Chinese hands

its not official public policy, but there have been people in the US government saying that if there is a war then the US will bomb tsmc facilities in taiwan

Re: Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded

#550

Post by RossBencina »

bee_rider wrote: post #199

Apple is the least interesting company to compare against. They are in their own MacOS/iOS software ecosystem, which you want if you want and you don’t if you don’t. Not to be dismissive of either side of that, there are legit reasons to stay in or out of Apple’s ecosystem. But benchmarking points is not a reason anyone would switch operating systems, right? What OS will these chips run and what is the competition on…

Daniel Lemire specialises in high-performance algorithm implementation. In recent years he has been impressed by specific performance characteristics of Apple's CPUs. For example, their ability to eek out the maximum possible throughput from a given instruction stream's data dependencies. My information may be stale, but when I read Daniel's comments I assume that Apple is being used for compariosn because it is the current leader, and take it as given that AMD and Intel are behind. You can probably find sources where he makes head-to-head comparisons with AMD and Intel. If you're not familiar with his work I can recommend it. The Wookash podcast interview is a gentle introduction, there is open source code and academic papers if that's more your thing.
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