How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs • Hacker News Board

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#631

Post by Huppie » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 10:59 PM UTC

veeti wrote: post #612

anigbrowl wrote: post #600

Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1... None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the disc…

Simply not true. The helpful diagram you refer to does not consider the case where company A manufactures the packaging, company B buys the packaging, and then does a B2C delivery to another member state. In that case company B is the producer, even if B is a "micro-enterprise". > the discussion here seems to have a lot of people who are in a big rush to demonize their perceived political opponents on ideological gro…

Under definitions (page 9) there's a big section > 6) Who is the ‘manufacturer’ of branded packaging? NEW! And it starts off this blurb: > According to the PPWR (Article 3(1), point (12)), if a packaging does not bear a name or trademark, the manufacturer will be the natural or legal person who manufactures packaging or packaged products. Seems pretty obvious to me the generic bubble envelope example from the blogpost doesn't make sense because that is generic packaging where the manufacturer has to handle this.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#632

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 11:02 PM UTC

radicalbyte wrote: post #244

bambax wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I used to sell objects on Amazon in Europe. You can sell from just one country, but then each sale outside of that country is an "export" that triggers high fees. For sales to be "local", products need to be stored in warehouses in each country. But that in turn means the owner of said products (the seller) has to be registered for VAT in that country, and submitting annual reports in each country's language. I…

Having worked on the inside: this is by design. You know for 100% that Pepsico and Coca Cola unleashed an army of lobbyists to make sure the laws were written in a way where the single market only worked for large business.

I'm surprised that was necessary. A single look at the EU website leaves no doubt that the EU is perfectly capable to create a bureaucratic nightmare all by itself (and incapable not to even if it tried).

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#633

Post by Huppie » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 11:03 PM UTC

aero_code wrote: post #615

anigbrowl wrote: post #600

Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1... None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the disc…

I don't see a diagram on page 13, but I read a few pages around there. I don't see anything about it not applying to micro-enterprises. I see one diagram (PDF page 14/page num 11) that says a farmer selling "under own name or trademark to end user in another Member State" (without saying there's an exception for a micro-enterprise) means that the "Farmer is producer," which sounds like the opposite of what you said.

Not a diagram but the section on page 9 regarding who's considered the manufacturer is relevant here. For generic packaging that's the manufacturer of the packaging.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#634

Post by runarberg » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 11:04 PM UTC

cm2012 wrote: post #577

runarberg wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from Europe and I think this complaint is misplaced. Europe is currently speeding towards neo-liberalism at lightspeed and shows no sign of slowing down. The beneficiaries are primarily the CEOs and big corporations. The workers are certainly not the ones benefiting from the status quo, especially if you look at the stripping down of consumer protection which is starting to look like completely absent in the con…

Is europe liberalizing its labor laws at light speed?

I wouldn’t say so. Labor laws are still strong in the continent (at least in the more unionized parts of the continent), though salaries are very stagnant and not keeping up with the mountain rise in the cost of living.

Unions are still strong, but they have been focusing less and less on consumer protection, there are still some victories, like increased holiday/sick pay, parental leave, and gender equality. But compared to the rapid loss of consumer protection, these victories are coming to few and to far apart.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#635

Post by sva_ » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 11:06 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #600

Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1... None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the disc…

Even if true, I wonder if it really helps if I basically need to hire a lawyer ($$$) to find out which regulations may or may not apply, and if I'll get myself into trouble.

It is not a coincidence that here in Germany there are whole law firms specialized in suing small business owners (Abmahnkanzleien.)

I think for a lot of people the tradeoff might not be worth it.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#636

Post by reillyse » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 11:09 PM UTC

svobodamartin wrote: post #593

reillyse wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country in Europe are you referring to? Your objections seem to be quite broad and lack focus but seem to be alluding to the specific. Give me an example of what you mean? I think leadership is hard. I’m not sure I buy the idea that a group of countries should be “hard” on anyone.

Political decision to close modern nuclear powerplants without replacement - Germany. Experts made a petition to reopen them. Migration - EU failed for many years to protect its border against illegal imigration - millions came, half a mil now legalized in Spain. Overregulation - EU institutions themselves now acknowledge that regulatory and administrative burdens are hurting EU competitivenes "Integration"/security…

I don't really see these as problems. I think the world needs someone to lead on the environment and Europe is more than rich enough that they can handle some short term pain. The countries aren't trying to maximize for short term gains like some other countries and thinking more long term and I think that is a great thing.

From the top. Nuclear - many people in Europe are anti nuclear

Migration - Europe is going to need migrants and I think most Europeans are in favor of a kinder Migration system

I like European regulation, particularly food regulation - I think it makes for high quality food. Besides, companies always complain about regulation.

Crime has decreased substantially in Europe since 2000 - lots of people are stoking tensions though for their own political ends

Carbon tax is good, the world should adopt one, Europe can lead on this.

Digital Regulation, more problematic for me but people are beginning to see the issues are social media and online porn, something has been needed here for a while

Taxes, lots of countries have taxes. Many countries have exit taxes - seems to be a problem for richer people.

Birth rate - as countries get richer they have less kids... not going to be forcing people to have kids so I'm not sure what the solution is there but I think Migration will play a role. ....

basically all of these sound like a bunch of Fox news soundbites rather than real world issues that Europeans have and I feel most Europeans are in favor of these things so this is how Democracy works.

I like that they are thinking longer term and not doing stupid shit like invading countries and killing people. I think thats a win in and of itself. Also, Europe has been peaceful for several generations now which is also a huge win.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#637

Post by thesimon » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 11:22 PM UTC

rvba wrote: post #561

fallingbananna wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could EU just ask DHL/Hermes/whatever to charge an additional €1 "for recycling"? Yes, but... Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China. And in Austria we will soon pay additional ~€2 for every delivered package. And 20% VAT. Edit: I am pretty sure at least some part of these already contribute towards recycling. The goal here is likely not just to get more funding for recycling, but rather to use materia…

DHL charges 1 eur for recycling, which it pockets since the envelope or box with thr product went to the consumer... who throws it away to the segregated garbage bin - for which every consumer also pays.

> for which every consumer also pays.

Idk, at least in Germany paper and (plastic) recycling is free. I only have to pay for organic trash and trash to be burned.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#638

Post by thesimon » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 11:30 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #308

Robin_f wrote: post #13

This is actively preventing me from sending packages to other countries as a maker. No matter how small the risk is, I don't want to risk a 5000 euro fine for sending a small amount of packages to other EU countries.

Do you send them as your business or as yourself? If it's the latter, then I would consider forming a business to take on the risk. That's not free either, but think of it as insurance.

Can't comment on all European jurisdictions obviously, but a 1 person LLC/Ltd. is not a great shield in Germany. Usually they'll still consider the owner/director liable because they were making those executive decisions.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#639

Post by jvwww » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 11:33 PM UTC

throw-the-towel wrote: post #548

shimman wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want the lifestyle of Europe but do not want the rich to pay more taxes to support it.

But don't Switzerland or the UK have similarly comfortable lifestyles with less absurd taxation?

UK taxation is absolutely absurd. Kills the ambitious. Just look at what happens between 100-125k, both from the perspective of tax and loss in benefits for parents.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#640

Post by wolvoleo » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 11:34 PM UTC

rwyinuse wrote: post #507

danielovichdk wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be much higher. The amount of shit that gets shipped from China to Europe (world) is fucking ludicrous, and people should be taxed heavily for the stupid shit they often don't need.

Unfortunately, if you want to fix electronics more often than not China is the only place you can buy spare parts. I don't think buying spare parts to devices counts as "stupid shit".

Yup and those parts often cost literal cents making the €3,60 per item a ridiculously high fee. All while we're protecting the environment by repairing things.