How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs • Hacker News Board

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#301

Post by deno » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:13 PM UTC

fallingbananna wrote: post #286

mstaoru wrote: post #190

I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not), but I can share how it is done in China (where package volume is orders of magnitude higher). China identifies "choke points" most packages pass: large platforms and logistics companies. Yes, Chinese e-commerce is more centralized on Alibaba/JD/PDD etc, but there are actually much more logistics companies in China than in EU. They also do not intr…

>Could EU just ask DHL/Hermes/whatever to charge an additional €1 "for recycling"? Yes, but... Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China. And in Austria we will soon pay additional ~€2 for every delivered package. And 20% VAT. Edit: I am pretty sure at least some part of these already contribute towards recycling. The goal here is likely not just to get more funding for recycling, but rather to use materia…

This has nothing to do with EPR. The €3 for packages from China is a fixed processing fee on top of potential tariffs.

They got rid of the de minimis €150 limit for tariffs and added fees on top.

There was also €25 VAT de minimis limit but that’s also no longer the case since some time.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#302

Post by cientifico » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:14 PM UTC

lucasRW wrote: post #159

Conan_Kudo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the first. It's not even the first in Europe: the first was the UK, Belgium and Switzerland came after. There are and have been others around the world throughout history too: the CSA, the first USA, the USSR, the UAE, and the Arab League (just to name a few). Most systems like the EU don't work well after a certain size. I don't know if we can say whether the EU has reached the point where it's unworkable y…

The thing with the EU is that, worryingly, the less it works, the bigger it becomes (new memberstates, soon, Albania...) and the more power it takes on. This continent is heading for a catastrophic outcome and one must be blind to not see it.

That is not what the numbers suggest. Europe still leads in median quality of life and more healthy markets.

If you focus only on economic exploitation: Of course, with customer protection, companies can't do whatever they want. Of course business will develop less in comparison to countries where companies are free to do whatever.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#303

Post by nradov » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:14 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #124

troupo wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've described Greece as a bunch of scheming petulant children. "Our plan to be inaccountable didn't work, so we'll try a different scheme instead". And yes, it's a huge problem. That's why I called the situation unwinnable.

They could neither fix the problem with the policy tools a country with its own currency would have, nor did they have the automatic support from a central budget a region or state of a country would have.

Greece could have fixed their problems by cutting spending and collecting more taxes (not necessarily higher taxes, but actually collecting the taxes that were owed). Currency inflation was never necessary.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#304

Post by mortarion » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:15 PM UTC

leros wrote: post #41

Laws like this really need to only be enforced for companies of certain sizes.

In the EU some companies simply cannot grow because of laws like that. They might want to grow, but can't because of laws that says if your company has more than X employees you suddenly have to deal with a bunch of extra bureaucracy and reporting requirements. These companies purposely stay small, and basically has stopped hiring, even if they could use more manpower.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#305

Post by soco » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:15 PM UTC

DanielHB wrote: post #72

oblio wrote: post #30

This is a direct result of national politics. EU member states want all the benefits of integration without giving anything up, especially things that they consider aspects of national sovereignty. * * * I'll give you an example. I'm from Romania. In Romania in 1990 there were no private enterprises, so everything was state owned. There was a HUGE demand for commerce/retail, so small local businesses popped up. They…

Language, payroll-rules and tax-rules alone can be enough to prevent a business from expanding into a market. Even when there is no foul intent, just different set of rules. I am from Brazil and it is not unusual for companies to operate only within certain states because of this. Even though Brazil is a single country with a single language and mostly federal rules about things, there is still enough variance of law…

EU is for all practical means not a single market, it's a hodge-podge of rules much more integrated in theory than in practice. Which is exactly the thing causing problems here, and ironically this is exactly what the anti-EU folks complain about. Think about this disconnect: complaining about friction and requesting less integration.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#306

Post by Yizahi » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:17 PM UTC

philipallstar wrote: post #89

troupo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if the EU tried to force countries into single compliance, there would no end of "EU is trampling national interests" and similar screaming. It's an unwinnable situation. Again, EU-level politics keep assuming everyone (corporations and states) are adults. Unfortunately, everyone are just a bunch of screaming, scheming petulant children.

> there would no end of "EU is trampling national interests" and similar screaming To just call this "screaming" is to completely dismiss a real and huge problem. The EU is the idea that countries should fuse into economic areas, but the countries are also individual still. Of course there's a lot of friction. For example, because Greece was in the Euro, they couldn't inflate their currency to compensate for the fact…

Do you realize that your example actually counters your point? The Greece's example illustrates that a misbehaving minority shouldn't have an outsized influence on the majority, which is a correct thing to aim for, I completely agree with you on that. But the current EU arrangement actually allows minority entities to veto majority's initiatives and improvements, exactly because EU is not fully federated. 1 member country can screech and blackmail 26 other members for any arbitrary reason, and they all must comply with this minority's ultimatum. If EU was a federation, majority would simply outvote any obstructionists.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#307

Post by ihateolives » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:18 PM UTC

radicalbyte wrote: post #236

mstaoru wrote: post #190

I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not), but I can share how it is done in China (where package volume is orders of magnitude higher). China identifies "choke points" most packages pass: large platforms and logistics companies. Yes, Chinese e-commerce is more centralized on Alibaba/JD/PDD etc, but there are actually much more logistics companies in China than in EU. They also do not intr…

Erm I've been talking about this for 4 years now. So I'm not sure how it can "come out of nowhere" unless you're paying 0 attention to really important regulation in your field. There will be a post in 9 months from software companies crying about the PLD and CRA because their leaders were asleep at the wheel for the last half decade.

"in your field"? All small businesses and solo enterpreneurs that I know who are hit by this are not "in this field". Their field is making jewelry or knitted toys or something similar. Now many are just not planning to ship EU wide just because it's too high risk for them.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#308

Post by criddell » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:18 PM UTC

Robin_f wrote: post #13

This is actively preventing me from sending packages to other countries as a maker. No matter how small the risk is, I don't want to risk a 5000 euro fine for sending a small amount of packages to other EU countries.

Do you send them as your business or as yourself? If it's the latter, then I would consider forming a business to take on the risk. That's not free either, but think of it as insurance.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#309

Post by AnssiH » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:18 PM UTC

luke5441 wrote: post #259

bambax wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I used to sell objects on Amazon in Europe. You can sell from just one country, but then each sale outside of that country is an "export" that triggers high fees. For sales to be "local", products need to be stored in warehouses in each country. But that in turn means the owner of said products (the seller) has to be registered for VAT in that country, and submitting annual reports in each country's language. I…

Is that with the One-Stop-Shop regulation or was that before that? If it was before than, then the EU recognized the problem and implemented a fix for it.

I don't think any EU One-stop-shop scheme covers "local" goods sales in other EU member states yet, i.e. an EU company has to register in all EU countries they hold stock in.

That is changing with the Single VAT Registration (SVR) legislation, effective in 2028.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#310

Post by r3trohack3r » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:19 PM UTC

akie wrote: post #294

formerly_proven wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's yet another EU regulation that requires a rep for each EU country or you're not allowed to do business. EU single market is a bad joke at this point.

[flagged]

America does it with 50 states