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MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

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Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#91

Post by initramfs »

dr_zoidberg wrote: post #78
initramfs wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ah, right, i vaguely recall that now. But why/how would it know AI was used, outside of a local LLM, weird it would say that AI was used (unless it's referring to the software itself).

MS Paint wanted to add the "this is AI" tag on a picture they just resized. OP didn't like that, so they went and downloaded Paint.Net to avoid having to deal with (MS) Paint shenanigans.

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks for pointing it out. I guess MSPaint scans for that now on Windows 10 and 11, or just 11?

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#92

Post by nvme0n1p1 »

londons_explore wrote: post #88
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does kind of say: The GUID is coming from the moderation endpoint, which is hit when you generate a local or cloud AI image based on your prompt. If there is no prompt, there is no endpoint, and likely no GUID. Obviously Paint could have been watermarking prior to AI though, but this specific AI watermarking appears to be only that.

The fact that local ai image generation uses an online moderation API is a bit worrying too.... Why not just mod the app to not call this API?

Since the watermarker runs locally, you could also do the reverse: generate some porn with a different open model, then run that code to tag it as "Content watermarked by Microsoft Responsible AI"

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#93

Post by JoeBOFH »

initramfs wrote: post #21
JoeBOFH wrote: post #9

I had this trigger the other day incorrectly and went and installed Paint.net. I pasted in a screenshot I took and just wanted to resize it. I got a banner saying it was made with AI and would be updated to reflect that.

I guess it shouldn't be surprising if an application called "paint.net" can determined if AI was used when connected to the internet. (I have used Paint.net more than a decade ago).

I was stating that MS Paint mis categorized a Print Screen screenshot as AI generated when pasted. Which pushed me to install PaintdotNet onto my laptop instead.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#94

Post by kvuj »

petjuh wrote: post #70

This reminds me that in the USSR they had typewriters that added an identifier somehow that could be traced back to that particular typewriter (and who it was sold to)

You have no idea how deep this rabbit hole goes. Search for EFF printers secret tracking.

Virtually all commercial printers embed an invisible identifier on every page printed.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#95

Post by dylan604 »

refulgentis wrote: post #77
dmantis wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article literally says it adds a guid, not a binary field indicating that the image is ai generated.

A guid isn’t a user id, if it is in this case, it’s an abuse of how guid is used, at least colloquially. I haven’t read enough to understand if it is user / machine id, I.e. only globally unique in the sense it’s a globally unique entity identifier.

They stated the GUID is used to identify the prompt used to generate the image. How are you confused as to not being able to identify the user?

"I haven’t read enough to understand". Oh, now I know the answer to my question

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#96

Post by red_admiral »

baby_souffle wrote: post #60
pjc50 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really needs to be hit with the GDPR hammer. Microsoft have not obtained consent for this.

> This really needs to be hit with the GDPR hammer. Microsoft have not obtained consent for this. At best they'd just disable it for EU... assuming they didn't successfully argue "it was in the ToS ..."

But the EU mandates watermarking of AI content.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#97

Post by mosura »

pjc50 wrote: post #58
weberer wrote: post #24

The AI aspect of this is a red herring. The real problem is that they're secretly adding in a unique identifier into every image you create. If somebody does not like your meme, they can just send a copyright subpoena to Microsoft to instantly get your full name, address, email, phone number, and any other data associated with your Microsoft account. Just like age verification, this is another weapon in the war again…

This really needs to be hit with the GDPR hammer. Microsoft have not obtained consent for this.

Why would the EU possibly object to this? It is exactly what they want.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#98

Post by red_admiral »

Misleading title: the watermark applies to AI generated/edited images. That includes local models.

Whether it applies to non-AI generated images is a question for the reverse engineers (or ironically, a suitable AI). My bet is on "no".

Of course, the pre-AI versions of paint and notepad can still be installed with a bit of trickery, and it's worth it just for the UX.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#99

Post by Retr0id »

BeetleB wrote: post #83
sixothree wrote: post #6

I think it would be nice if all cameras digitally signed pictures. You could prove the photo was real.

How exactly would this work? People take RAW photos. Load it up in a RAW editing tool. Manipulate it. Then load it in Gimp. Manipulate some more. Will the final result have the signature? And if it does, what use would it be?

In the imaginary dream world that Adobe, Google et al live in, the final file does indeed have a signature.

Each piece of software in the chain must use TPM-like technologies (yes, even GIMP) to make sure it's running a "legitimate" build of the software, on "legitimate" hardware, and re-sign the file at each step along the way (using keys provisioned during some flavour of remote attestation flow, or using a RA-authenticated remote-signing oracle).

The final file embeds every preceding manifest, so you can "verify" all the way back to the original.

If this all sounds patently unworkable, that's because it is.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#100

Post by red_admiral »

weberer wrote: post #24

The AI aspect of this is a red herring. The real problem is that they're secretly adding in a unique identifier into every image you create. If somebody does not like your meme, they can just send a copyright subpoena to Microsoft to instantly get your full name, address, email, phone number, and any other data associated with your Microsoft account. Just like age verification, this is another weapon in the war again…

> every image you create

*with the help of AI*. Does in fact make a difference.

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