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MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

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Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#61

Post by Noaidi »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #2

AI-generated text warning (I submitted - but did not author - the piece), but it seems MS Paint and MS Photos add both a visible (can be turned off) and invisible (cannot be disabled and happens silently in the background with no user notice) watermarks to photos that have been AI-manipulated, even when using a local model to perform the action. It's not clear if this applies to even things like using AI-enhanced bac…

I have some better options. Stop using computers, or if you use a computer, use Linux.

Everything is spying on us now. Literally everything. I recently downgraded my MacBook M1 to Sonoma to avoid all this AI privacy invading BS.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#62

Post by Someone1234 »

nemomarx wrote: post #26
weberer wrote: post #24

The AI aspect of this is a red herring. The real problem is that they're secretly adding in a unique identifier into every image you create. If somebody does not like your meme, they can just send a copyright subpoena to Microsoft to instantly get your full name, address, email, phone number, and any other data associated with your Microsoft account. Just like age verification, this is another weapon in the war again…

Does it trigger on non AI images? The post doesn't say so at least.

It does kind of say: The GUID is coming from the moderation endpoint, which is hit when you generate a local or cloud AI image based on your prompt. If there is no prompt, there is no endpoint, and likely no GUID.

Obviously Paint could have been watermarking prior to AI though, but this specific AI watermarking appears to be only that.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#63

Post by dagaci »

weberer wrote: post #24

The AI aspect of this is a red herring. The real problem is that they're secretly adding in a unique identifier into every image you create. If somebody does not like your meme, they can just send a copyright subpoena to Microsoft to instantly get your full name, address, email, phone number, and any other data associated with your Microsoft account. Just like age verification, this is another weapon in the war again…

This a variant of the provenance scheme: C2PA its implemented by all major Camera maker, and Google it seems, Apple support it with 3rd party apps on iPhone, but they have something called "Apple Reference Image" brewing.

Personally I think there is a good argument for being able to distinguish AI generated image and video...

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#64

Post by herf »

weberer wrote: post #24

The AI aspect of this is a red herring. The real problem is that they're secretly adding in a unique identifier into every image you create. If somebody does not like your meme, they can just send a copyright subpoena to Microsoft to instantly get your full name, address, email, phone number, and any other data associated with your Microsoft account. Just like age verification, this is another weapon in the war again…

No - there is a huge difference between "this AI created this image" and "this user did it" - the first we need more of, and the second is a big privacy concern. The article does not say anything about identifying a user.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#65

Post by baby_souffle »

sixothree wrote: post #6

I think it would be nice if all cameras digitally signed pictures. You could prove the photo was real.

> You could prove the photo was real.

No. You'd only ever be able to show that key material belonging to $specific_camera was used to sign/mark the image.

Was the camera manufacturer breached? Did somebody on the factory floor steal some keys during the provisioning step? Or did somebody build their own photo-sensor simulator and plug _that_ in to the camera's motherboard to feed it a "real" image? Before going _that_ far, just point the unmodified camera at a sufficiently high resolution display...

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#66

Post by jacquesm »

Delphiza wrote: post #13

I get the privacy concerns, and we are right to expect Microsoft to say that this is what their tool may be doing. However, I fear that one day we will look back and wonder why we didn't do more to sign and preserve human authenticity. Having a stamp saying "AI manipulated" should be a part of digital lineage tooling.

You can watermark AI without leaking who did it. That's just using AI to add yet another layer of user tracking.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#67

Post by akersten »

dagaci wrote: post #63
weberer wrote: post #24

The AI aspect of this is a red herring. The real problem is that they're secretly adding in a unique identifier into every image you create. If somebody does not like your meme, they can just send a copyright subpoena to Microsoft to instantly get your full name, address, email, phone number, and any other data associated with your Microsoft account. Just like age verification, this is another weapon in the war again…

This a variant of the provenance scheme: C2PA its implemented by all major Camera maker, and Google it seems, Apple support it with 3rd party apps on iPhone, but they have something called "Apple Reference Image" brewing. Personally I think there is a good argument for being able to distinguish AI generated image and video...

> I think there is a good argument for being able to distinguish AI generated image and video...

Neat but that's not what's being built here. What's being built is "we can trace back this content to who made it" which is bad. Doesn't matter if today that it's limited to AI generated content. Won't be tomorrow. Your devices should not act against your best interests. No cop in my pocket please.

Re: MS Paint and Photos inivisibly watermark even locally generated output with GUID

#68

Post by woodrowbarlow »

sixothree wrote: post #6

I think it would be nice if all cameras digitally signed pictures. You could prove the photo was real.

do you believe this should be mandated by regulation, or voluntarily offered by manufacturers as a value-add feature? ("all" implies the former.)
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