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Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

larsfaye.com

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Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#91

Post by risyachka »

ryandvm wrote: post #48

100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…

Maybe some day, not in the short term. I've seen output of bad developers using Fable and after that I sleep safe.

A bad or below average dev with AI will run your product and company into the ground in a matter of weeks.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#92

Post by chris_money202 »

Most computer science programs don't teach "coding" though. There is pretty heavy emphasis on datastructures, algorithms, and system design. I don't think AI atrophies those skills / knowledge as much as the coding language and I think in many cases actually improves them, especially if you are reading the code that is produced and at least understanding the flow of it.

I agree that AI reliance is hurting engineer's language understanding, but I don't know how much we should care.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#93

Post by tayo42 »

ben_w wrote: post #66
ryandvm wrote: post #48

100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…

> That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read this Jira ticket and implement the feature in this code base" isn't really worth $200K/year. Nor even €50k/year. Two things are true: 1) The coding part of my career is over. LLMs are capable of doing everything I've ever been paid to *write*. 2) My actual job also included non-coding work: Does this attempted solution even work at all? Is this solving the…

Ai can work through all of those questions in number 2 and design around it.

I was just doing that yesterday designing a game demo lol

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#94

Post by pixelpoet »

aledevv wrote: post #70

I strongly agree with the concept that cognitive friction is the engine of learning. First and foremost, it's an issue of "dependency": if you stop training the "muscle" of logic and reasoning, it gradually atrophies, just like unused physical muscles. You become dependent on external tools that replace a capability you once had yourself. A historical example that brought about a similar shift is this: when the produ…

Another example is autocorrect absolutely destroying the world's ability to spell even the most basic words. Ever since mobile phones came along and removed the friction of walking to the dictionary, everywhere I look people write as if they have extremely serious brain trauma - grown adults struggling to write as well as we used to as children!

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#95

Post by enraged_camel »

ben_w wrote: post #66
ryandvm wrote: post #48

100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…

> That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read this Jira ticket and implement the feature in this code base" isn't really worth $200K/year. Nor even €50k/year. Two things are true: 1) The coding part of my career is over. LLMs are capable of doing everything I've ever been paid to *write*. 2) My actual job also included non-coding work: Does this attempted solution even work at all? Is this solving the…

FWIW: The highest paid devs I know excel at 2, and aren't even that good at 1.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#98

Post by matsemann »

ben_w wrote: post #66
ryandvm wrote: post #48

100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…

> That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read this Jira ticket and implement the feature in this code base" isn't really worth $200K/year. Nor even €50k/year. Two things are true: 1) The coding part of my career is over. LLMs are capable of doing everything I've ever been paid to *write*. 2) My actual job also included non-coding work: Does this attempted solution even work at all? Is this solving the…

Before, if I would start working / thinking on a problem and discover it was harder than anticipated, that often was a signal that the feature may not be worth it. Because implementing it doesn't fit the current model of how things work or similar. Then it was back to the drawing table and find a better way of solving the underlying issue.

But an LLM just happily chugs along and does it, no one feels the friction, which means you never stop up to think if you're solving the right problem, or in the right way. I'm already seeing this bite us in the ass, as you get hacks upon hacks.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#99

Post by gustavus »

lanstin wrote: post #73
larsfaye wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they have for a large majority of the population. And fun fact: that debate is still going on, and the Mathematical Association of America (MAA) enacted a rule prohibiting calculator use in AMC. https://ivyleaguecenter.org/2024/03/12/over-reliance-on-calc... Math fosters critical thinking, and we've been in a critical thinking deficit for decades and decades. I don't think we can afford to sink even deeper.…

Because the 1890s and 1930s were famous for their population wide critical thinking, of course. Good heavens, what do they teach in the schools these days.

I mean you may be trying to make a point but the counterpoint is Einstein, Bohrs, Planck, Shannon, Turing, Von Nuemann, Feynman, Bohr and most of the other big names all came out during that time.

In contrast since then we've had almost not noteable physicists or Computer Scientists that I'm aware, we've got a couple, Hawking and Knuth. But apart from that I don't know if there is a single scientist I could point out today that has revolutionized our understanding or even done any real breakthrough work in the field of Physics since Einsteins era.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#100

Post by hypfer »

larsfaye wrote: post #26
toenail wrote: post #6

And math skills are going to collapse from calculator reliance.

Actually, they have for a large majority of the population. And fun fact: that debate is still going on, and the Mathematical Association of America (MAA) enacted a rule prohibiting calculator use in AMC. https://ivyleaguecenter.org/2024/03/12/over-reliance-on-calc... Math fosters critical thinking, and we've been in a critical thinking deficit for decades and decades. I don't think we can afford to sink even deeper.…

> Math fosters critical thinking

I kinda agree, but I also kinda disagree.

My question would be if "math" is the right tool for that. It can achieve that as a side-effect, but how we express it and talk about it is full of legacy cruft, cargo-culting and general bullshit that makes it not exactly snap into place for all kinds of brain wirings.

Math I believe is not an end in itself. Maybe with that perspective, solutions that satisfy our needs there can be found

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