How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs • Hacker News Board

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#291

Post by cm2012 » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:10 PM UTC

radicalbyte wrote: post #244

bambax wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I used to sell objects on Amazon in Europe. You can sell from just one country, but then each sale outside of that country is an "export" that triggers high fees. For sales to be "local", products need to be stored in warehouses in each country. But that in turn means the owner of said products (the seller) has to be registered for VAT in that country, and submitting annual reports in each country's language. I…

Having worked on the inside: this is by design. You know for 100% that Pepsico and Coca Cola unleashed an army of lobbyists to make sure the laws were written in a way where the single market only worked for large business.

It's comforting to believe that large corporations with the greed of the rich and powerful is what makes these inefficiencies but really it's about a million little political negotiations, primarily driven by voters dislike of change.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#292

Post by Ylpertnodi » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:10 PM UTC

aristofun wrote: post #183

Europe has been steadily eradicating freedom and entrepreneurial spirit for the past 50 years. They will suffer badly many years later. They are slowly walking to disaster, but nobody cares. Go on, downvote me for telling the obvious truth :)

After so long living in each EU country, your 'obvious truth' is neither obvious or truthful..

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#293

Post by benoau » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:10 PM UTC

Kudos wrote: post #239

Anti-EU regulation sentiment really seems to have an uptick in line with widespread availability of LLMs. The EU isn't perfect, but the catastrophising I read feels mostly like astro-turfing attempts at destabilisation. It's probably more easily noticed from inside the EU.

> feels mostly like astro-turfing attempts at destabilisation

Well it is certainly the perfect conditions for it, the EU is surrounded by friends and enemies alike who openly seek to break it up and the biggest companies in the world are doing everything they can to defy and undermine regulation efforts.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#294

Post by akie » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:11 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #267

mns wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They also do not introduce these regulations "from tomorrow" This wasn't introduced "from tomorrow", people had 1 year and a half to prepare for this (at least) or to protest this. See some comments below how individual countries actually messed this up. > But of course EU is fundamentally different in a way that the politicians need to please the electorate, so nothing is really planned ahead. > I don't know if th…

It's yet another EU regulation that requires a rep for each EU country or you're not allowed to do business. EU single market is a bad joke at this point.

[flagged]

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#295

Post by soco » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:12 PM UTC

Sol- wrote: post #31

> A good idea, a terrible implementation Story of European regulations. At some point you have to concede that they are incompetent and unaccountable. What do they care if they depress economic integration and growth in Europe? No one will ever be blamed for diffuse bureaucratic costs that drag down the whole Eurozone. I even resent people giving them credit for "well, the idea was laudable..". No. Again and again th…

As an American and probably as most Americans you are missing the point that there are no "Europeans", stop saying that. The EU is just a bunch of states which happen to do some things together. And all those "directives" are guidelines for the individual states, which may, and more often that not, may not, implement it that way. Usually they don't because "muh freedom" (I'm sure you get the reference) so it's a chaos EXACTLY BECAUSE no European state wants to submit to some European authority, and even takes pride in doing things DIFFERENTLY, whatever the costs (economical or political).

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#296

Post by nico_h » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:12 PM UTC

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #210

argentinian wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws are voted by politicians. Do you mean that most EU politicians are puppets of EU corporations?

EU politicians seemed to be fairly captured by corporations generally. Less so than politicians from the countries themselves. Voting turnout for EU representatives is very low compared with voting for local officials. I think its because people know that who they vote for as their chancellor or prime minister can make a big impact on their lives. They see the EU parliament as this distant thing and don't follow it s…

It passed on a technicality of present reps voted against in majority but not enough total votes because the president had triggered a special vote for the last session before recess when less reps are present.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#297

Post by dwedge » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:13 PM UTC

sdfonw wrote: post #229

I'm sorry I don't buy this. A "micro-entrepreneur" should be trusted to design a product complying with the regulations of 27 member states but cannot be bothered by the packaging requirements? My guess is that most of the products on this website simply do not comply with the norms and regulations they ought to, thus why care if they don't comply to waste management either.

You don't generally have to pay a bureaucracy tax to each of the member states to do business there. At some point we might as well just bring back tariffs and do away with the overhead of the EU

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#298

Post by philipallstar » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:13 PM UTC

troupo wrote: post #107

philipallstar wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there would no end of "EU is trampling national interests" and similar screaming To just call this "screaming" is to completely dismiss a real and huge problem. The EU is the idea that countries should fuse into economic areas, but the countries are also individual still. Of course there's a lot of friction. For example, because Greece was in the Euro, they couldn't inflate their currency to compensate for the fact…

So you've described Greece as a bunch of scheming petulant children. "Our plan to be inaccountable didn't work, so we'll try a different scheme instead". And yes, it's a huge problem. That's why I called the situation unwinnable.

> So you've described Greece as a bunch of scheming petulant children.

Can you quote where I did that, please?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#299

Post by tengwar2 » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:13 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #177

greenraven wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part This is by design. It’s the same all over the world. The wealthy are not going to just let you compete

Dunno about that. I live in the US. I can start a small business today and the only thing I'd have to do differently is file an additional form on my taxes next year. Yes, that's a simplification that doesn't apply to every situation, but it is still completely accurate.

That's pretty much the situation in the UK if you are a sole trader. If you set up a limited liability company, that's a separate entity and has its own tax reporting requirement, but nothing onerous. I am a sole trader, and manage a small company separately from that.

One thing I have heard of in the USA is the need for a "business licence". I'm not sure what that is or whether it applies to all businesses, so I'm not sure what it would correspond to in the UK. Neither of my businesses needed any licences or permissions to start trading.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#300

Post by varjag » Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 3:13 PM UTC

lccerina wrote: post #138

The complaint is totally understandable, BUT the examples do not make sense. Arduino did not start as some dude selling less than 10 boards a year, but as an educational tool, which THEN ramped up to 100s of boards produced every day. If your perspective is "I may sell 10 boards this year, maybe", your target is some local/national maker-faire, not a EU marketplace. I think makers with such limited productions will j…

It sounds like a pain for any small company, not just individual makers. There are many small manufacturers of boutique equipment that could be sold at dozens units per year, and this would add massive bureaucratic overhead.