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Don't paste the AI, please

dontpastetheai.com

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Re: Don't paste the AI, please

#561

Post by the_af »

andrewflnr wrote: post #462
the_af wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Usually a clear sign that you are not communicating effectively Agreed. I learned that in emails, a multi-paragraph, multi-item text means the recipient will randomly reply to only one of the points (often the least important one). So an effective email will make a single point, in as brief a manner as possible.

This defines "communicating effectively" in a way that it can't possibly cover a complex topic. Sometimes you need to communicate complex topics, so this definition is a failure. The problem remains that people refuse to do the reading required for their job.

> This defines "communicating effectively" in a way that it can't possibly cover a complex topic [...] so this definition is a failure.

Indeed, I don't think email can be reliably used to convey complex topics.

> The problem remains that people refuse to do the reading required for their job.

Communicating effectively means accepting common flaws of people who are unlikely to change, and delivering your message in the most effective way. Whether people are right or wrong or should be fired (as another comment says) is not truly relevant.

I often fail, by the way. I'm not saying I have this all figured out.

Re: Don't paste the AI, please

#562

Post by chrisweekly »

prepend wrote: post #487
john_strinlai wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anything longer belongs somewhere better than email (Slack, wiki / knowledgebase, docs site) wiki/kb or docs site, sure, depending what the topic is. but... slack? for your long-form communications? please email me your long stuff, don't slack it to me. email is perfectly fine for longer text when longer text is required. (opinion also shaped over a long time in various roles at companies of various size)

Oddly, I find the search in Slack, Teams, and Discord to be so horrible I don’t create any “knowledge there.” It’s like trying to write a paper on the telephone. Anyone putting long form stuff into an IM system is taking the way of pain.

(Replying to parent and GP)

I wasn't suggesting an IM system should be the source of truth for long-form documentation. But searching Slack works better than searching email you weren't cc'd on. Virtually anything is better than email for many essential aspects of collaboration.

Want to add someone to the mailing list and loop them in? How many prior emails will you forward to them?

Someone replies to one of several points in an email, someone else wants to address a different point, and there are a mix of habits and patterns for whether / how much / where to quote or include the previous messages in a response....

vs adding someone to a channel where they can review the conversation history, and some combination of threads and links to additional channels or external resources can adequately support whatever direction(s) the conversation takes.

In any case, it's the wrong tool for the job in so many ways, so much of the time. Hence my recommendation to keep emails to 5 sentences, and to prefer communication tools that properly support multiuser collaboration.

Re: Don't paste the AI, please

#563

Post by chrisweekly »

BeetleB wrote: post #542
chrisweekly wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Write a long email that took time to reason and write, precise and complete text." Respectful hard disagree. Emails should be limited to five sentences. "I didn't have time to make a shorter reply" as an apology / disclaimer for rare exceptions. In virtually every case, anything longer belongs somewhere better than email (Slack, wiki / knowledgebase, docs site) or merits a realtime conversation. My PoV is shaped b…

So far, searching email has been more effective than searching anything else (Wiki, Slack, etc).

How do you search emails you weren't cc'd on?

Re: Don't paste the AI, please

#564

Post by john_strinlai »

chrisweekly wrote: post #562
prepend wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly, I find the search in Slack, Teams, and Discord to be so horrible I don’t create any “knowledge there.” It’s like trying to write a paper on the telephone. Anyone putting long form stuff into an IM system is taking the way of pain.

(Replying to parent and GP) I wasn't suggesting an IM system should be the source of truth for long-form documentation. But searching Slack works better than searching email you weren't cc'd on. Virtually anything is better than email for many essential aspects of collaboration. Want to add someone to the mailing list and loop them in? How many prior emails will you forward to them? Someone replies to one of several…

we have polar opposite opinions on email and slack/teams/discord! im not sure i am even understanding the issues you brought up about email correctly.

may i ask what age bracket or generation you are? only if you're comfortable sharing, of course.

im in my 60s. and im curious if our difference of opinion here is a product of what technologies were/are available during the start & prime of our careers. i very well might be in stubborn old man mode subconciously.

Re: Don't paste the AI, please

#565

Post by [deleted] »

physPop wrote: post #449
Jamesbeam wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your whole handwritten Principles of AI document is a testament to failed leadership. That’s all it is. The only reason someone needs to write this is because leadership is not smart enough to solve the problems it showcases, in a way that is respectful to how the employees with years of experience learned their craft. They have a tried and tested thought pipeline that makes them capable of what you hired them for, a…

I think you need to get out and see what life is like. This isn't a leadership problem at all, it is human nature. No one does sums anymore, we use calculators. We've outsourced computation. But now many workers outsource thinking and communication, which is hugely problematic. So yes, good companies should have AI usage guidance documents, in fact providing clear expectations might be labelled ... leadership.

[deleted]

Re: Don't paste the AI, please

#566

Post by throwatdem12311 »

tzs wrote: post #486
ltbarcly3 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "good" news is you won't have to deal with this much longer. Claude, which this person basically admitted through their behavior, will replace 99% of the offshore devs in the next couple years. Then you won't have to get the ick from talking to them and they can go back to having no real economic prospects in a 3rd world country, and most likely lose the social and economic standing they had from having a good jo…

Or you’ve got it backwards. Claude et al. with offshore developers to fix hallucinations and verify answers will replace onshore developers.

You can’t fix hallucinations if you don’t even know what the code does. In my experience working with dozens of firms, offshore do not give a single damn about understanding. Frankly, their job security rests on nobody understanding what the code does. If they can inflict the brain damage on your organization so they can keep billing you in the future they will absolutely do it.

Re: Don't paste the AI, please

#567

Post by BeetleB »

chrisweekly wrote: post #563
BeetleB wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far, searching email has been more effective than searching anything else (Wiki, Slack, etc).

How do you search emails you weren't cc'd on?

If it has to be information stored in depth, then sure a KB/wiki is better.

IME, the majority of long emails should not be persisted in such places, because they contain a fair amount of errors. One could say that any long email thread should be eventually synthesized in the KB/wiki after the conversation has wound down.

And Slack/Teams? No way. If I need to write something long in response to a Slack IM, and email is verboten, then I'll insist on setting up a meeting.

Re: Don't paste the AI, please

#568

Post by Forgeties79 »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #523
Forgeties79 wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely revisionist history. That was never an acceptable thing to do outside of light hearted joking. You’d do that to a colleague or someone asking for help in earnest? It’s a deliberate, rude act that is aggressively proclaiming “how dare you waste my time.“ God help you if you ever ask a question you could’ve looked up yourself, because of course you never do that right? You always make sure to engage in rigor…

Deliberate rude acts were very common in my first few jobs. I distinctly remember multiple directors asking people "Are you a fucking moron?", and much worse. This was both at small companies and fortune 200s. The rude cranky IT guy is a trope for a reason. Learning to return the hostility, while proving that you do indeed know what you're talking about, was a rite of passage. I almost just said it was like working w…

If your workplace resembled house, one of the most ridiculous, overdramatized medical shows that routinely displayed casual illegal acts and brushed them off like nothing, then you should understand that your worklife closely resembled fiction and nobody should work in a workplace like that. He was an addict who abused his colleagues and subordinates.

How on earth are you using an absurd work of fiction as a good thing and then justifying treating people like shit at work? People don’t want to be cursed and yelled at and personally insulted at work and they shouldn’t have to deal with that.

Re: Don't paste the AI, please

#569

Post by [deleted] »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #454
Jamesbeam wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your whole handwritten Principles of AI document is a testament to failed leadership. That’s all it is. The only reason someone needs to write this is because leadership is not smart enough to solve the problems it showcases, in a way that is respectful to how the employees with years of experience learned their craft. They have a tried and tested thought pipeline that makes them capable of what you hired them for, a…

Weird take. It’s not bad leadership to have policies and there’s not near enough context to go on a rant about failed leadership. Maybe they’re doing fine.

[deleted]

Re: Don't paste the AI, please

#570

Post by TheScienceMan »

buzz27 wrote: post #411

i recently created https://needsmoresalt.org/ with a similar intent figuring out the most useful epistemic and conversational norms around AI in work communication is still a work-in-progress. there's times when "go talk to claude a bit and then get back to me with a more precise question" is reasonable, and other times where it inhibits learning and culture. similarly, there are many occasions where i don't mind quo…

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