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Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

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Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#961

Post by Paradigma11 »

rbanffy wrote: post #941
Paradigma11 wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One main difference is that those examples you brought up are ideological propaganda. RFE/RL try to amplify their message and yes, the current Russian regime is very antithetical to that message. Russian propaganda is not ideological, it tries to maximize the damage to western nations and uses whatever political and ideological message that will achieve that. They have been doing that for decades, which is something…

> those examples you brought up are ideological propaganda These are the examples they were able to identify. And many of them could be so obviously identified because of ideological component. The alleged censorship of RT is more a counter-propaganda move: RT is a Russian vehicle that engages in a number of psychological warfare ops. And, BTW, the only thing Western countries have not done in Russia is assassination…

So you are saying that you also don't have any concrete examples of the West doing the same.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#962

Post by weatherlite »

dude6402 wrote: post #825
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think we're done here. I don't see a cohesive theme that deserves a response in between your responses to very specific pieces of my argument rooted in deflection and whataboutism. I feel I've expressed my viewpoint sufficiently. I don't feel like debating the definition of "terrorism", "extremist views", "race", "South Africa", etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

Thank you for holding your ground here. As frustrating as it can be to wade into these threads, pushing back brings some much-needed sanity to a conversation that otherwise gets drowned out by propaganda (or at least the one i'm used to as consumer of regular western media). Beyond the main points, this exchange is a useful case study in Hasbara and bad-faith debate tactics. (whataboutism, shifting goalposts, and sem…

Anything you disagree with is "Hasbara" right ? Supporting Israel's right to exist - Hasbara. Saying some Palestinian hold extremist view - Hasbara.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#963

Post by watutalkinbout »

frollogaston wrote: post #954
watutalkinbout wrote: post #949

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas they just love the Muslims.

They often bring up how Israel has been evicting Christians

Israel isn't a religion, it's a nationality.

There are elements of the American right that are antisemitic but it definitely has bigger problems with Muslims, and a large slice of the American right view Jews favourably (arguably very favourably).

Pew data is one example of data that shows this. Plus, in terms of Israel specifically, if you look at current support for the Iran war (which the Trump admin has repeatedly framed as important for Israels security) it's almost exclusively on the political right.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#964

Post by HDThoreaun »

frollogaston wrote: post #792
HDThoreaun wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US backs out the hard liners gain even more control, ally with china, and begin their final solution to the palestinian problem. Israelis would go north korea before a one state solution.

That's the thing though, no other world power would sign up for this kind of relationship with Israel. We're giving them protection and paying them for it too. There's a reason Russia and China don't go head to head with us over the Mid East, but Russia will do it in Ukraine.

> no other world power would sign up for this kind of relationship with Israel

Which is exactly why they'll feel like a cornered animal and become even more violent. Israel has a competent defense industry, they do not need foreign aid to run their military. What they need is foreign aid in order to semi humanely run their military at a price theyre happy with. Foreign aid pulling out wont end their military, itll just make it less humane and even more reckless.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#965

Post by manyaoman »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #964
frollogaston wrote: post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing though, no other world power would sign up for this kind of relationship with Israel. We're giving them protection and paying them for it too. There's a reason Russia and China don't go head to head with us over the Mid East, but Russia will do it in Ukraine.

> no other world power would sign up for this kind of relationship with Israel Which is exactly why they'll feel like a cornered animal and become even more violent. Israel has a competent defense industry, they do not need foreign aid to run their military. What they need is foreign aid in order to semi humanely run their military at a price theyre happy with. Foreign aid pulling out wont end their military, itll ju…

Got to admire your imagination coming up with that piece of rubbish. Running a country humanely is free in short term and exponentially profitable in long term. I don't think it's a coincidence that the most democratic countries also tend to be the wealthiest.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#966

Post by manyaoman »

weatherlite wrote: post #962
dude6402 wrote: post #825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for holding your ground here. As frustrating as it can be to wade into these threads, pushing back brings some much-needed sanity to a conversation that otherwise gets drowned out by propaganda (or at least the one i'm used to as consumer of regular western media). Beyond the main points, this exchange is a useful case study in Hasbara and bad-faith debate tactics. (whataboutism, shifting goalposts, and sem…

Anything you disagree with is "Hasbara" right ? Supporting Israel's right to exist - Hasbara. Saying some Palestinian hold extremist view - Hasbara.

No country has some divine right to exist. If a nation keeps crossing every line, there's no reason to keep it around. How is this not obvious.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#967

Post by judah »

customguy wrote: post #849
judah wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you hold the same standard for native Americans? And yes, people are responsible for their actions. Hamas, an Islamic fundamentalist group whose founding charter calls for the violent overthrow of the world's only Jewish state, started a war on October 7th, 2023. Israel fought back and won, and now Hamas is paying dearly for what they did.

> yes, people are responsible for their actions. So why keep talking to claim the opposite again , trying to absolve Israel of responsibility again ? > Hamas, an Islamic fundamentalist group whose founding charter calls for the violent overthrow of the world's only Jewish state ... was sponsored by those who now use them as a pre-text. And that old, initial version of their charter, since revised, is still a joke to…

> "So why keep talking to claim the opposite again, trying to absolve Israel of responsibility again?"

Because Israel winning a war they didn't start is a good thing, actually. Israel fighting until the hostages were released is a good thing.

> "And that old, initial version of their charter, since revised, is still a joke to bring up in attempt to deflect from what IDF and Israeli politicians showed and show us, right now."

Hamas still wants its original goal, it still wants to destroy the Jewish people and institute an Islamic fundamentalist state. Theirs is an antisemitic, genocidal agenda, encoded in the group's founding document and still believed and fought for by its members.

> "repeating such robotic one-liners is just the attempt to evade accountability for collective punishment plus other war crimes and crimes against humanity."

Hamas started a war and lost it. With Hamas thoroughly defeated, their foolish supporters in the West are now relegated to screeching false accusations against Jews online. I'm ok with that.

A real genocide -- for which the term was first coined -- looks like a population whose numbers are still lower some 90 years later. Nazi Germany committed genocide against Jews in Europe in 1939, killing 6 million Jews, and the worldwide Jewish population today still hasn't recovered to pre-1939 levels.

Hamas wants to do the same to Jews today. Israel won't let them. And this is the root cause of conflict in the Middle East.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#968

Post by watutalkinbout »

boxed wrote: post #884
gosub100 wrote: post #829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care what they built. If you want to fight them, man up and go get them! US forces did this in Iraq. Let's see gods chosen people be so brave.

The civilian casualties in Gaza are lower than the US managed in Iraq in dense urban areas. So.. yea they did and still you complain.

What data are you using exactly?

Iraq had well over 10 times the population (26-27 million) and the war lasted about 10 years.

"Mortality in Iraq Associated with the 2003–2011 War and Occupation"[pubmed] put the figure at about 132,000 war related deaths. "Iraq body count" was about 158,000. Taking the highest figure that's about 0.6% of the population over the 10 years.

I think the estimates for Gaza, with a population of about 2.2 million, are between 70 to 75,000. That's over 3% of the population over 2 years.

So on a 'per year' basis for % of population - that's 0.06% for Iraq versus 1.6% for Gaza.

That's over 25 times higher in Gaza than Iraq.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#969

Post by nailer »

dudefeliciano wrote: post #927
yonixw wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, this map misses the Sinai occupation and return. This is the more correct version: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Israeli_territorial_... Very different story told here...

Compare the palestinian territories in the first and last slide on that image and the story told is exactly the same.

Not really - the green map famously pretends that all government land owned by the British by the Ottomans belonged to the Arab people that called themselves Palestinians in 1960. It also equates people that lived in British and Ottoman Palestine to those people, whereas both those places were multi ethnic states. It also ignores the proposed 23rd Arab state that was rejected by the Arabs.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#970

Post by frollogaston »

manyaoman wrote: post #965
HDThoreaun wrote: post #964

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no other world power would sign up for this kind of relationship with Israel Which is exactly why they'll feel like a cornered animal and become even more violent. Israel has a competent defense industry, they do not need foreign aid to run their military. What they need is foreign aid in order to semi humanely run their military at a price theyre happy with. Foreign aid pulling out wont end their military, itll ju…

Got to admire your imagination coming up with that piece of rubbish. Running a country humanely is free in short term and exponentially profitable in long term. I don't think it's a coincidence that the most democratic countries also tend to be the wealthiest.

He meant being humane in how they fight wars with Hamas. Like it's cheaper to just bomb everything regardless of civilians.

The thing is, Israel needs to worry about its own defense too. Currently there are several semi-hostile neighbors that the US basically pays off, plus the US pays for very expensive defense systems in Israel. Last invasion was long ago, Yom Kippur War, where the US was withholding aid until Israel started losing and suddenly it became an airlift scramble. But more recently there were the two Iran wars where thousands of drones and missiles had to be shot down.

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