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U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#171

Post by rhelz »

unrented7977 wrote: post #53
jambalaya8 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really already did lose its reserve status, in a manner of speaking. There isn't ever going to be a gold standard again (even if there is, would the actual gold have the sort of real life uses it had when the gold standard was around? Not like people fill teeth with it anymore unless you are some sort of thug).

Gold is a fantastically useful element. It's vastly more useful today as our knowledge and application of chemistry has improved. It's probably more in demand as a commodity today than it ever has been.

Gold is a useful element, for sure, but there's no where's near enough of it to serve as a reserve currency. E.G. the U.S. reserves are worth about $1.2 trillion (changes each day, of course). Compare that to a national economy which has a GDP of over $30 trillion.

All these old gold bugs just can't wrap their heads around what exponential growth really looks like. But we can grow our productive capacity far, far faster than we can grow the supply of gold.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#172

Post by myvoiceismypass »

skeledrew wrote: post #162
Gud wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps true 20 years ago, today I'm not so sure. From across the pond, the USA looks like a has been who relies a lot on old merits. The world got bombed to pieces 80 years ago, but has step by step rebuilt itself. The advantage the US had has been squandered by ineffective leadership.

They still hold the advantage no matter what. If diplomacy doesn't work, they can sanction or tariff or impose export controls. Or they can invade.

Invasion seems untenable given the leadership and strategy we are seeing in this giant Iran defeat.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#173

Post by webninja »

pickleglitch wrote: post #165

I feel like the media is anticipating a new Democrat controlled congress, and so they are starting to bang on the national debt panic drum in preparation. Not that the debt isn't a problem, and $40T is certainly a milestone, but if the dems do somehow get back in power I'd bet $40T that we will all be treated to endless op-eds about how we have to do austerity because the debt is out of control. The military will sti…

It's starting to feel hopeless. A decade of party rotations and this issue still exists. The fiscally liberal will spend and the fiscally conservative aren't being fiscally conservative. How come we no longer hear about DOGE? How long until 20% of all tax revenue goes just to interest on the debt?

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#175

Post by DoesntMatter22 »

epolanski wrote: post #135
DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well all the other administrations were driving 200 or 300 miles over, now we are driving 500 over. It doesn't matter really, if we hit anything (like Japan dumping US treasuries) we may be dead. The democrats thing was what I had originally replied to. My whole point is that it really doesn't matter who is in the White House really, both sides seem determined to rack up as much debt as possible and it'll probably sp…

This is true globally, not just in the US, and that's why global debt keeps spiralling. But I still find the argument "it doesn't matter if you're going 200 or 300 or 500 mph" completely asinine. It does, and it makes an enormous difference when the debt is so big in absolute terms. You keep forcing an equality that's not there. At the end of the day it's one specific administration that brought the largest tax cuts…

The point is is that it just doesn’t matter anymore. Neither party is going to stop it. No matter who is in power It’s going to end badly.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#176

Post by krapp »

webninja wrote: post #173
pickleglitch wrote: post #165

I feel like the media is anticipating a new Democrat controlled congress, and so they are starting to bang on the national debt panic drum in preparation. Not that the debt isn't a problem, and $40T is certainly a milestone, but if the dems do somehow get back in power I'd bet $40T that we will all be treated to endless op-eds about how we have to do austerity because the debt is out of control. The military will sti…

It's starting to feel hopeless. A decade of party rotations and this issue still exists. The fiscally liberal will spend and the fiscally conservative aren't being fiscally conservative. How come we no longer hear about DOGE? How long until 20% of all tax revenue goes just to interest on the debt?

>How come we no longer hear about DOGE?

DOGE was an obvious farce that defunded and destroyed necessary programs on a purely ideological basis[0], intimidated government employees[1], created far more tax waste than it ever found, much less claimed[2,3] disrupted legitimate government functions by firing necessary employees who needed to be rehired[4], exfiltrated an unknown amount of private data to Palantir and who knows who else[5,6], and then after permanent damage to the government was done, was closed[7]. It's mission is complete, there's nothing more to hear about them.

I'm sorry if you ever thought DOGE had anything to do with an honest, good-faith effort to reduce government waste. If so, you were lied to. Its purpose was to purge the government of ideological enemies, protect Elon Musk's business interests[8] and lay the groundwork for the transition to authoritarianism.

[0]https://www.reuters.com/world/us/musk-cuts-based-more-politi...

[1]https://www.salon.com/2025/02/06/musks-doge-operation-sued-o...

[2]https://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/07/...

[3]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doge-wall-of-receipts-elon-musk...

[4]https://apnews.com/article/doge-musk-trump-gsa-fired-employe...

[5]https://www.wired.com/story/doge-collecting-immigrant-data-s...

[6]https://whistleblower.org/in-the-news/the-independent-whistl...

[7]https://www.nffe.org/press-release/doge-fails-and-shutters-y...

[8]https://www.npr.org/2025/02/12/nx-s1-5293382/x-elon-musk-dog...

I mean it was named after a 4chan shitposting meme, why did anyone take it at face value to begin with?

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#177

Post by bakies »

webninja wrote: post #173
pickleglitch wrote: post #165

I feel like the media is anticipating a new Democrat controlled congress, and so they are starting to bang on the national debt panic drum in preparation. Not that the debt isn't a problem, and $40T is certainly a milestone, but if the dems do somehow get back in power I'd bet $40T that we will all be treated to endless op-eds about how we have to do austerity because the debt is out of control. The military will sti…

It's starting to feel hopeless. A decade of party rotations and this issue still exists. The fiscally liberal will spend and the fiscally conservative aren't being fiscally conservative. How come we no longer hear about DOGE? How long until 20% of all tax revenue goes just to interest on the debt?

DOGE shut down and was a farce from the beginning. Typical Musk. He only shut down regulatory parts of the government that were investigating him and stole as much data as he could. A few publicity stunts like installing starlink near the White House.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#178

Post by bakies »

skeledrew wrote: post #146
verzali wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what happens when people stop lending money? No more military spending? No more social security? Massive tax rises? Hyper-inflation?

They will be told "lend us money, or else" and that loan will get processed because the alternative is worse.

Or else what? The military can't keep a little water way open that's critical to international trade

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#179

Post by webninja »

verzali wrote: post #142
skeledrew wrote: post #103

And who's going to hold the US responsible for repayment? Way I see it, US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying, whether through structuring it as some economic package or just straight up saying go suck it. The former's been done before (1933); maybe eventually we'll see the latter, if a nation has the balls to ask. And talking about it is pretty pointless, like talking about how wet y…

So what happens when people stop lending money? No more military spending? No more social security? Massive tax rises? Hyper-inflation?

I'd say if the trend continues: all the above and full federal governmental collapse.

Compound interest is one of the most powerful forces in the world. Currently interest on the debt is ~19% and is growing at a CAGR of 11.2% per year. At the current growth rate, how long until interest on the debt consumes 100% of all tax revenue?

A ray of sunshine & hope: Many state governments who are both low-debt and fiscally conservative will be fine. We also experience small amounts of this with each governmental shutdown.

Start planting fruit trees so the next generation can eat.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#180

Post by krapp »

bamboozled wrote: post #140
solid_fuel wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The issue was that Project 2025 seemed like something conspiracy theorists believed in, I didn't see Trump go on Rogan with a folder called Project 2025 and read through it with him and discuss the real plans outlined in the book. And in 2016, I may have been sympathetic to this argument. By the time 2024 had rolled around, we had already endured the trainwreck of his first administration, his failures while handli…

Look, ultimately here is where I disagree: I am not willing to give any of his supporters the benefit of the doubt anymore. I think more people chose not to vote because they didn't really like Biden (too old) and didn't really believe project 2025 was real , that was more what I meant with that comment.

Biden wasn't on the ticket, Kamala Harris was. And the age difference between Biden and Trump is just three years. That age has only ever been a problem for Biden, even now when Trump is showing signs of physical and mental decline far worse than Biden ever did, is a testament to the effectiveness of American right-wing propaganda and meme culture.

As far as not believing Project 2025 was real, people can say that until they're blue in the face. The evidence that it was real and supported by the majority of American conservatives, Republicans and Trump voters, and much of it by Trump himself, was obvious to everyone else.

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