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Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

quantum5.ca

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Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#241

Post by Brian_K_White »

amstan wrote: post #152

> Framework chose to not provide a header for flashing the BIOS, which, when combined with issue #3, forced the use of pogo pins. Op probably missed https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/FrameworkDebugger#jspi . Though, the connector is not populated for cost reasons. Otherwise, I agree with the author, this is a pain.

The user is not guilty of "missing" this if fw never pointed to it when asked directly.

And where is the bios image to use with this anyway? Including the documentation to fix the serial numbers.

The existence of this header changes exactly nothing about the story.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#242

Post by opello »

quantum5 wrote: post #214
margalabargala wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this is just one issue. How many potential $0.78 connectors exist? If one in 1000 customers has a need for a connector, and there are 40 different potential failure modes where a $0.78 connector would make recovery easier, is that worth the extra $30 per laptop?

I checked the pictures of my board, and there are 3 unpopulated headers that I can see. There's also the unpopulated BIOS chip socket, which is similarly cheap. I think I would pay the extra $3 per laptop for better repairability, which is Framework's entire sales pitch anyway.

Moving to sockets adds risk of the socket failing too. But this particular instance of not using an SOIC-8, for which test clips are readily available, seems pretty unfriendly.

I imagine there's a way to program the flash from a header or connector, or maybe it was programmed before being assembled onto the PCB.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#243

Post by javchz »

darthcloud wrote: post #87

I had the same thing happen to me with my Thinkpad Nano, and researching how to fix this made me realize pc manufacturer really don't care. PC bricked from BIOS update are still ultra common. I uploaded a dump of the flash [1] in the bad state and they somehow analyzed it and made a fix. Great for others I guess, but I'm still mindblown that the regular path would have been that this perfectly working laptop to this…

In PCs it's usual for a lot of motherboards have a dual bios, so if something fails (eg no POST) in the update, the mobo fall backs to the other one. It's a cheap chip in bulk, that would help a lot in cases like this.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#244

Post by EastSmith »

SCdF wrote: post #17

I agree with their conclusion. I somewhat regret buying my framework laptop at this stage, because the answer to every fault is "buy a new component, from framework". I'm not sure I blame them for this really, but there is no competitive market of parts (or really any market at all), which means that the reality is that you're just locking your money to them. They also often have stock issues, so woe betide you if yo…

> In comparison to MacBooks ...

I can buy 3rd party: RAM, SSD, WI-FI,random Expansion cards from the marketplace. I can open and clean and change thermal paste, etc. I've heard the display can be bought from alibaba, etc.

I can't even open my Mac.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#245

Post by evolve2k »

margalabargala wrote: post #198
quantum5 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Original author here: Thanks for linking the documentation! To be clear, when I wrote "header", I meant something with a connector that can be easily used for this purpose. Soldering on the connector is probably more difficult than the pogo pins that I used. I also can't help but notice the linked connector is less than $1 in bulk on DigiKey and probably cheaper if ordered at Framework's scale.

Sure, but this is just one issue. How many potential $0.78 connectors exist? If one in 1000 customers has a need for a connector, and there are 40 different potential failure modes where a $0.78 connector would make recovery easier, is that worth the extra $30 per laptop?

Having a BIOS update BRICK the device isnt 'just one issue', they clearly need to do more work to protect devices from this, they can choose what they add but the BIOS needs a safer fallback and recovery process, that much is clear.

Definitley worthy of even an extra $1-2 per laptop if needed.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#246

Post by inventor7777 »

markbnj wrote: post #5

Good story, and surprising that there was so little assistance from the OEM. As an aside, I got to test out Asus crash free BIOS a couple of weeks ago. A strong thunderstorm hit and before I could get to my office a rapid series of deep voltage drops occurred. I shut down my systems and waited out the storm. When I powered my Asus tower back on it failed to POST, automatically restarted, recovered the BIOS (CMOS sett…

Asus has their gimmicks but that sounds genuinely cool and well thought out!

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#247

Post by X-Istence »

leonheld wrote: post #223
darthcloud wrote: post #87

I had the same thing happen to me with my Thinkpad Nano, and researching how to fix this made me realize pc manufacturer really don't care. PC bricked from BIOS update are still ultra common. I uploaded a dump of the flash [1] in the bad state and they somehow analyzed it and made a fix. Great for others I guess, but I'm still mindblown that the regular path would have been that this perfectly working laptop to this…

> Or some DFU mode you can boot into. Ironically, Macs do have that, no?

Yep, you can do a DFU recovery on a Mac from another Mac over USB. Same as if it were an iPhone/iPad. Which makes sense since it's basically the same hardware.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#248

Post by rkagerer »

shibapuppie wrote: post #207
throwaway2037 wrote: post #35

I think cases like this should be brought before a small claims court. It seems unfair. The company (Framework Computer) provided the software, but the software is faulty and broke ("bricked") the laptop. Can you imagine if a GPU driver caused the card to get bricked? Even if out of warranty, surely the manuf would be legally liable in many jurisdictions for this faulty driver. The author's LinkedIn profile[1] tells…

"talk with an LLM to follow the correct steps" Or, if you need legal advice, go to a lawyer, not an LLM.

Thank you. The commenter had me onboard right up until that point.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#249

Post by massysett »

EastSmith wrote: post #244
SCdF wrote: post #17

I agree with their conclusion. I somewhat regret buying my framework laptop at this stage, because the answer to every fault is "buy a new component, from framework". I'm not sure I blame them for this really, but there is no competitive market of parts (or really any market at all), which means that the reality is that you're just locking your money to them. They also often have stock issues, so woe betide you if yo…

> In comparison to MacBooks ... I can buy 3rd party: RAM, SSD, WI-FI,random Expansion cards from the marketplace. I can open and clean and change thermal paste, etc. I've heard the display can be bought from alibaba, etc. I can't even open my Mac.

The expansion cards always seemed a gimmick to me: it's just a USB-C port, loaded down with the extra plastic necessary to claim it's an expansion port. I guess some folks find it more convenient than a dongle, but when I'm using a laptop for portability it's rare I want anything other than USB-C. (When the laptop is sitting at home or in the office on a desk, just plug in a Thunderbolt dock and get all the ports I could want.)

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#250

Post by omcnoe »

SCdF wrote: post #17

I agree with their conclusion. I somewhat regret buying my framework laptop at this stage, because the answer to every fault is "buy a new component, from framework". I'm not sure I blame them for this really, but there is no competitive market of parts (or really any market at all), which means that the reality is that you're just locking your money to them. They also often have stock issues, so woe betide you if yo…

We bulk bought a lot of Framework Intel 12th gen laptops to kit out our engineering team.

Within a year many of these (>20%) started experiencing the "400 MHz bug" where the CPU is either intermittently or constantly stuck at 400 MHz, and the laptop starts to heat up like an oven. As far as I know there has never been any conclusive fix for this issue from Framework, or even an official debugging guide.

It really soured me on the idea of repairable laptops - what's the point of it being "repairable" if you have huge fundamental flaws in the hardware that go unfixed?

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