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Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

quantum5.ca

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Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#191

Post by 63 »

jszymborski wrote: post #126
SCdF wrote: post #17

I agree with their conclusion. I somewhat regret buying my framework laptop at this stage, because the answer to every fault is "buy a new component, from framework". I'm not sure I blame them for this really, but there is no competitive market of parts (or really any market at all), which means that the reality is that you're just locking your money to them. They also often have stock issues, so woe betide you if yo…

I've had this sort of thing happen with a Dell XPS, and their response was "purchase a new laptop". While it would be great if we had stronger consumer protection, for both economic and environmental reasons I prefer the Framework approach.

When you purchase a new laptop, you can choose a different manufacturer who may have a more durable product. When you have a framework, you're forced to buy the same component from the same company that made it poorly in the first place, if it's even in stock.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#193

Post by anthonj »

throwuxiytayq wrote: post #186
anthonj wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bricked" is a bad term for system without a proper software/firmware update path. A LOT could have been done here to improve "repairability" (with quotes, because this is a software issue on a perfectly fine mainboard). A/B updates automatically recovering the bios is case of failed update, recovery from usb in case that somehow fails as well (InsydeH2O call it "crisis mode" I think). Lenovo support both. Dell too a…

I mean, sure, I agree it would be ideal if BIOS updates literally couldn’t fail - I meant to ask what they could have done to resolve this situation now . But yes, lack of an USB bios recovery path is a pretty terrible design fault, and I’m surprised that they haven’t improved this by now.

ah, you mean after the accident. Well for starter I would acknowledge the issue (thing that according to the liked thread did not happen, maybe it did not affect enough customers?). Then they should either provide an official recovery guide instead of letting customers figure it out themself on the forum (I can see various pictures of people hooking clips to the flash chip and wondering want to flash exactly), or repair it pro-bono since it's a job that probably take ~10 mins for affected customer and it's an issue caused by a design flaw.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#194

Post by Tade0 »

cschep wrote: post #124

The lack of support from Framework is so damning. Nirav has been a fun CEO to watch, but this feels like a huge, huge miss. Can anyone defend this? Why would anyone purchase anything from this company ever again?

The 16 I have clears the low low bar gaming laptops have set.

My previous laptop was an ASUS G14 and it didn't even take two years for huge problems to appear - particularly throttling.

Also the very last firmware update absolutely destroyed power management, making it idle at a crazy 20W.

The keyboard in my Framework is weak and I had to replace it, but other components are doing well.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#195

Post by Benanov »

drdexebtjl wrote: post #115
quantum5 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a gimmick when the serious overclocking people do custom VBIOSes. Similarly for miners. That's when you need the recovery switch if things go wrong.

TIL about custom VBIOSes. Why don’t the OEMs of GPUs aimed at OCing just ship with a BIOS that exposes more tweaks through software though…

Custom Video Card firmware has been around a long time. It was possible to convert PC video cards to Mac use by flashing them. When I was faffing around with PPC64 Macs (I mean hey I got it for free) I picked up an ATI card on ebay that had been flashed.

I had sleep issues. It was the lowest-end G5. I ended up recycling it.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#196

Post by akho »

anthonj wrote: post #12

I really don't understand how in 2025 a competent company can't implement a trival A/B flash update. Do they depend on some obscure contractor for the firmware and have no power here?

I own the "original" gen11 Intel Framework 13. This is a company that wasn't able to ship a working RTC battery, a touchpad that would register a click when a physical click happened, a screen hinge that would reliably hold the screen in an upright position, or a USB-A port that wouldn't consume a watt of power when unused. You expect way too much engineering from them.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#197

Post by organsnyder »

63 wrote: post #191
jszymborski wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had this sort of thing happen with a Dell XPS, and their response was "purchase a new laptop". While it would be great if we had stronger consumer protection, for both economic and environmental reasons I prefer the Framework approach.

When you purchase a new laptop, you can choose a different manufacturer who may have a more durable product. When you have a framework, you're forced to buy the same component from the same company that made it poorly in the first place, if it's even in stock.

You're always free to purchase a new laptop, though.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#198

Post by margalabargala »

quantum5 wrote: post #157
amstan wrote: post #152

> Framework chose to not provide a header for flashing the BIOS, which, when combined with issue #3, forced the use of pogo pins. Op probably missed https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/FrameworkDebugger#jspi . Though, the connector is not populated for cost reasons. Otherwise, I agree with the author, this is a pain.

Original author here: Thanks for linking the documentation! To be clear, when I wrote "header", I meant something with a connector that can be easily used for this purpose. Soldering on the connector is probably more difficult than the pogo pins that I used. I also can't help but notice the linked connector is less than $1 in bulk on DigiKey and probably cheaper if ordered at Framework's scale.

Sure, but this is just one issue. How many potential $0.78 connectors exist? If one in 1000 customers has a need for a connector, and there are 40 different potential failure modes where a $0.78 connector would make recovery easier, is that worth the extra $30 per laptop?

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#199

Post by nomadygnt »

63 wrote: post #191
jszymborski wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had this sort of thing happen with a Dell XPS, and their response was "purchase a new laptop". While it would be great if we had stronger consumer protection, for both economic and environmental reasons I prefer the Framework approach.

When you purchase a new laptop, you can choose a different manufacturer who may have a more durable product. When you have a framework, you're forced to buy the same component from the same company that made it poorly in the first place, if it's even in stock.

When you buy a framework, you are not forced to buy the same component from framework. You are free to buy a new laptop like you would if your laptop from Dell failed.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#200

Post by bityard »

jszymborski wrote: post #126
SCdF wrote: post #17

I agree with their conclusion. I somewhat regret buying my framework laptop at this stage, because the answer to every fault is "buy a new component, from framework". I'm not sure I blame them for this really, but there is no competitive market of parts (or really any market at all), which means that the reality is that you're just locking your money to them. They also often have stock issues, so woe betide you if yo…

I've had this sort of thing happen with a Dell XPS, and their response was "purchase a new laptop". While it would be great if we had stronger consumer protection, for both economic and environmental reasons I prefer the Framework approach.

You didn't mention what the problem was, but Dell laptops are so ubiquitous that buying replacement parts on eBay is both very easy and highly affordable. This is one of the reasons I'm partial to Dell, even in the face of all the objectively better-designed alternatives.
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