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Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

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Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#31

Post by meaty »

spamizbad wrote: post #29
meaty wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kits didn't survive, but the parts did. The problem is no-one knows how to use the parts unless they are assembled into kits. The whole maker movement solves this by making kits, therefore raising the bedrock abstraction for knowledge way too high. The better solution would be to teach people how to use the parts, which is my problem.

> The problem is no-one knows how to use the parts unless they are assembled into kits. Huh? If anything, in the good old days , there were WAY more kits than there are today. Besides that, hobby electronics has a long history of doing stuff like "Here's a schematic, here's a BOM, and here's a paragraph on the 'theory of operation' that assumes a solid understanding of electronics and a bunch of domain-specific stuff…

I think there are more kits now. There used to be kits for oscilloscopes, test equipment etc. Now these are black boxes, some of which are a joke.

We had something better than stack exchange - we got an electronics book and a maths book out of the local library and studied it, understood it and developed mental models, rather than expecting a canned answer to plug in somewhere.

And yes I have scars from ferric chloride accidents.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#32

Post by daeken »

meaty wrote: post #26
danilocampos wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Persistence, perseverance, timing? None are relevant. Says the guy who gave up the space way back in the 90's while others get magazine stories. Sour grapes are rough man, I'm sorry. But you only embarrass yourself went you vent it so publicly. I won't bother with the rest. You're deriving a lot of self-esteem from your knowledge of things that others don't have. But rather than rejoicing in the spread of that know…

Hardly. I put the kits together in my spare time in the interest of spreading knowledge. The designs were open and published in a magazine in the UK as well. I don't do it any more because I am too damn busy, but the moment I retire, I'm not driving self esteem - I'm just well equipped to say that you can't start without knowing the basics. I actually spent nearly 8 years as an engineering mentor, teaching others so…

> I'm just well equipped to say that you can't start without knowing the basics

I went from not knowing anything beyond hooking an LED up to a battery, to being published in EDN (for my brain-computer interface hacking) and talking at BlackHat (for my electronic lock hacking) in the space of a year. I didn't do it by learning the fundamentals -- I did it by jumping in and experimenting. I screwed up along the way, repeatedly, but I learned it very well.

Any time you say "you can't start without ", you're almost definitely wrong, unless your goal is to be a surgeon.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#33

Post by phodo »

meaty wrote: post #5

Am I the only one who finds the 'maker movement' slightly embarrassing. There are plenty of us before Limor who did the same stuff without the fanfare and movement crap. This isn't a flame - I'm just surprised that the application of spin managed to produce such a ton of noise.

A bit of Schadenfreude? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude

Be happy! A rising tide raises all ships (boats / skiffs / rafts / swimmers / floating bathtubs).

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#34

Post by Codhisattva »

rdl wrote: post #22
meaty wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I will. I find it embarrassing in the same way as I find computer science portrayals in movies embarrassing. Hax0r the planet etc... Making money - selling overpriced modules and branded crap for way more than marginal profit (compared to say RS/Farnell/Digikey) and shipping an identity rather than tools to solve problems. Understanding the market - actually they created a new market full of flashing LED cube mac…

Paint by numbers is totally acceptable as a way to learn the mechanics of painting. Them, like you do with her kits, use the paints and brushes left over to do you own variations, then independent projects.

I just was in an artist's studio where he was working on several very large commissioned stained glass windows. Numbers everywhere.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#35

Post by TeMPOraL »

meaty wrote: post #20
danilocampos wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're embarrassed by a successful entrepreneur? Can you explain to me what is embarrassing to you? Is it the making money part? Is it the understanding a market and serving it part? Is it the education and knowledge sharing to better energize and expand the market part? Is it the persistence, perseverance and timing part? Is it the creation of a legion of folks who never would have participated had they not been giv…

Yes I will. I find it embarrassing in the same way as I find computer science portrayals in movies embarrassing. Hax0r the planet etc... Making money - selling overpriced modules and branded crap for way more than marginal profit (compared to say RS/Farnell/Digikey) and shipping an identity rather than tools to solve problems. Understanding the market - actually they created a new market full of flashing LED cube mac…

> that 10 ohm 1/4W resistor smoked across a 12v source

Hahah, that's exactly the configuration I used to make fuses for rocket engines we were building with friend in high school. 10 ohm resistor on 12V burned quite nicely - and well enough to ignite the fuel.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#37

Post by meaty »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #35
meaty wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I will. I find it embarrassing in the same way as I find computer science portrayals in movies embarrassing. Hax0r the planet etc... Making money - selling overpriced modules and branded crap for way more than marginal profit (compared to say RS/Farnell/Digikey) and shipping an identity rather than tools to solve problems. Understanding the market - actually they created a new market full of flashing LED cube mac…

> that 10 ohm 1/4W resistor smoked across a 12v source Hahah, that's exactly the configuration I used to make fuses for rocket engines we were building with friend in high school. 10 ohm resistor on 12V burned quite nicely - and well enough to ignite the fuel.

Yes indeed - the same :) They were cheaper than Estes igniters as well!

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#38

Post by jdale27 »

phodo wrote: post #33
meaty wrote: post #5

Am I the only one who finds the 'maker movement' slightly embarrassing. There are plenty of us before Limor who did the same stuff without the fanfare and movement crap. This isn't a flame - I'm just surprised that the application of spin managed to produce such a ton of noise.

A bit of Schadenfreude? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude Be happy! A rising tide raises all ships (boats / skiffs / rafts / swimmers / floating bathtubs).

A bit of Schadenfreude? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude

You might want to actually read the first sentence of the article you just linked to. meaty is not experiencing "pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others".

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#39

Post by pyre »

meaty wrote: post #21
danilocampos wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah I actually designed two kits for maplin in the 90s before they started shipping velleman shit and containers full of Chinese plastic crap. Sounds like you're actually embarrassed that she succeeded where you did not. > It's turned engineering into painting by numbers powered by social hype. Like the iPad is "just" a big iPhone. Most people who benefit from these sorts of products don't have a firm grasp of mat…

Most people who benefit from these sorts of products don't have a firm grasp of math and engineering to start with. Our education sucks in the US. Giving them a helping hand is a terrific way to swell the ranks of STEM professionals and introduce people to solving problems they would never have considered otherwise. Just teach them engineering! Not pussy foot around and molly coddle them.

Your approach to this comes across as the equivalent of lamenting the state of 'kids these days' because 'back in the day,' if you did something wrong the priest would 'beat some sense into you.'

Some people find the idea of engineering and/or mathematics intimidating. If approached in the right way, it will 'click' for them, or at the very least their fears can be assuaged (allowing them to pursue higher learning). I take two issues with your posts here:

1) From your posts here, your approach sounds like you want to 'beat some engineering fundamentals into them.' You say that you've mentored others, so I can't believe that this is actually your approach, but your posts come across this way. This may be at lease some of the reason that people are reacting the way they are to you.

2) You seem to be lamenting the fact that some people will work on these kits, and never go further with the 'higher learning' aspect. This is to be expected. There will never be a way to convert 100% of those curious into the One True Path of Engineering Enlightenment(tm). At the very least, the people that only dabble will get past the idea that all of this 'technology stuff' is some sort of voodoo magic that the majority of the population seems to believe.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#40

Post by lutorm »

meaty wrote: post #28
xradionut wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there are a ton of us old farts that have been sniffing solder flumes and flipping switches for years. :) Adafruit and newer companies of this ilk fill a need for us oldtimers and the newcomers. Many of my old sources of various parts and kits are dead, evolved or just didn't handle the transition to the internet well.

The kits didn't survive, but the parts did. The problem is no-one knows how to use the parts unless they are assembled into kits. The whole maker movement solves this by making kits, therefore raising the bedrock abstraction for knowledge way too high. The better solution would be to teach people how to use the parts, which is my problem.

The better solution would be to teach people how to use the parts

If your attitude is that you know best what other people should do, you won't get very far. They don't want to plow through a book, they want to build something that does something. Who are you to tell them that they can't?

You say that getting them interested with a kit is useless because they will bail as soon as they hit some math. Well, they're certainly no worse off than if they hadn't built the kit, which is the alternative.

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