Well if it isn't the time for a "protest" song ! https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NonW9jozKYg
The Iran War Is a Whole New Level of Quagmire for the US
31–40 of 75 posts
Re: The Iran War Is a Whole New Level of Quagmire for the US
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, people don't want to talk politics, but will gladly engage in climate conversations and other random things that are affected by politics, because the one thing where people are chosen to lead on popularity than merit is not interesting while it affects us and is currently causing more deaths than anything else (DOGE defunding, 'eradicated' viruses returning, unauthorised wars). The front page only has so much…
People talk politics and want to talk politics here. But, there are groups of people who flag politically uncomfortable stories. And it is systematic. I yes, I read new so I dont buy the neutrality or randomnness of put of topic claims.
I agree with you. When I say they don't want to talk politics, it's more to say that Americans, which I presume makes the most of HN's readership; are embarassed by their political decisions, and would rather censor discussion than accept what the world sees of them and their leaders.
Re: The Iran War Is a Whole New Level of Quagmire for the US
#33It's hard to overstate how poorly this whole thing was thought out and executed. They obviously had no plan for what we'd do when Iran seized the strait. This is going to go down as the definitive beginning of the decline leading to the eventual end of US global hegemony. To think anyone ever mentioned defending Taiwan from China lol
> To think anyone ever mentioned defending Taiwan from China lol There are still countries willing to defend democracy out there - Ukraine/Europe/Canada/Japan/S-Korea/Australia. Just not USA.
Let me check if I get this right: you're making the argument that if USA won't defend Taiwan, Ukraine/Europe/Canada/Japan/S-Korea/Australia will?
I mean, obviously Ukraine won't. Does that need saying? It's insane to think about. Look at the history of WW1 and WW2: Russia will fight until the Russian state collapses and we're, at minimum, years away from that happening. And Ukraine, if they have any sense whatsoever, will do exactly very little for anyone else until that happens. Only a German dictator is stupid enough to answer "What do you do if you're stuck in a land war with Russia?" with "open 3 extra fronts" and we all know what happened to him. Ukraine is fighting from the underdog position and that means: no stupidity. And that means: no fighting China, no defending Taiwan, even despite the fact that China is fighting Ukraine. Sorry.
Europe and Canada utterly depend on China in 1000 different ways. They have chosen not to defend anyone, and will need a decade (minimum) to rearm. And even rearmed ... will they be able to challenge China? At that distance? Other than France none of these countries currently have the ability to project power outside of their borders at all, so they will do exactly nothing, because they've chosen to be utterly powerless (google "the peace dividend")
These countries are actually smug about those decisions, despite how stupid they are. I was recently in Ireland, and in a pub I found that that NOT ONLY Irish people were proud NOT to support Ukraine, but they were "proud" (their words, not mine) that they were still supporting Russia, because that matters to them personally (ie. jobs from Alumia exports and cheap Russian gas for everyone)
You know, people kept screaming the same thing with the USAID cuts. Everyone else will take over and get goodwill from everywhere instead of US. Reality then was that nobody took over, and where they did, it was to support armies, not people (e.g. UAE "helping" Sudan, Russia "helping" Mali, ... of course all of that happened with UN approval or at least silence)
Reality here is that if the US doesn't help defending Taiwan, nobody will. Not even Japan or South Korea. MAYBE Taiwan will get Ukraine-style loans, if that even matters (without US help, China will be able to fully control both sea and air routes into Taiwan in a matter of days. So even if Taiwan has money to spend, delivery of anything they buy will be utterly impossible)
Re: The Iran War Is a Whole New Level of Quagmire for the US
#34It's hard to overstate how poorly this whole thing was thought out and executed. They obviously had no plan for what we'd do when Iran seized the strait. This is going to go down as the definitive beginning of the decline leading to the eventual end of US global hegemony. To think anyone ever mentioned defending Taiwan from China lol
> To think anyone ever mentioned defending Taiwan from China lol There are still countries willing to defend democracy out there - Ukraine/Europe/Canada/Japan/S-Korea/Australia. Just not USA.
[deleted]
Re: The Iran War Is a Whole New Level of Quagmire for the US
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
People talk politics and want to talk politics here. But, there are groups of people who flag politically uncomfortable stories. And it is systematic. I yes, I read new so I dont buy the neutrality or randomnness of put of topic claims.
I agree with you. When I say they don't want to talk politics, it's more to say that Americans, which I presume makes the most of HN's readership; are embarassed by their political decisions, and would rather censor discussion than accept what the world sees of them and their leaders.
The ruling class (both foreign and domestic) are struggling on many fronts with the suppression of public dialog. HN isn't one of those places, here you can just press a button a few times ~ and the uni-party will come out victorious once again to bring the world another round of the same earth shaking bullshit.
Re: The Iran War Is a Whole New Level of Quagmire for the US
#36Professor Robert Pape (University of Chicago) has 2 substacks where he have been discussing the exactly topic heavily, as well as having webinar/ live discussions with some heavy hitters about the topic. Unfortunately both of the substacks are both subscription-only https://professorrobertpape.substack.com/ https://escalationtrap.substack.com I would rather not paraphrasing or rewrite in my interpretation too much, a…
Does China or India care if Iran gets nuke as much the US does?
Re: The Iran War Is a Whole New Level of Quagmire for the US
#37Crazy idea: what if the US starts minding its own business and stops bombing countries just because it can?
How many hours do you think our current President could stick to that strategy, if it didn't instantly - Poof! Magic! - make everything better?
Its not a Trump issue. With the exception of Jimmy Carter, every US president since WW2 bombed something or someone.
Re: The Iran War Is a Whole New Level of Quagmire for the US
#38Professor Robert Pape (University of Chicago) has 2 substacks where he have been discussing the exactly topic heavily, as well as having webinar/ live discussions with some heavy hitters about the topic. Unfortunately both of the substacks are both subscription-only https://professorrobertpape.substack.com/ https://escalationtrap.substack.com I would rather not paraphrasing or rewrite in my interpretation too much, a…
Does China or India care if Iran gets nuke as much the US does?
Yes, because that increases the likelihood of Japan, Korea, Ukraine and even Taiwan getting nuke.
Re: The Iran War Is a Whole New Level of Quagmire for the US
#39Crazy idea: what if the US starts minding its own business and stops bombing countries just because it can?
That’s not the AIPAC way, and they are the ones driving right now. Until Congress is cleared out of these scum bags then nothing will change.
Re: The Iran War Is a Whole New Level of Quagmire for the US
#40This is going to leave a mark for centuries, history books are going to look back on this period in the US in complete dismay and horror for what this country continues to do. As an American, and from my point of view, this is a headline moment where this country commits to its slide to just a middling country with "only" 380 million people mismanaged to inefficiency and un competitiveness and brain drain. The whole…
> The whole rest of the world has their own agency and is wising up to the fact that the US is limited to financial instruments and 5-13 functional aircraft carriers to project force. Soft power and goodwill is spent and we're just ignorant bullies who elected a rapist twice and can't be trusted
Maybe it's just the American way of passing the torch, this is kind of a gift by reminding the rest of the world about what they can do without us. The "America, defender of democracy" image was an illusion constructed as we emerged from WW2 as the strongest of the Allies, and that of course was due to the unique privilege of deciding when to tip the scales strategically, not when we were forced to.
So much has been built on that American privilege at all levels since then. The most glaringly obvious folly was interpreting this privilege as American Exceptionalism, because as a "leader of the free world" obviously that depends on how the rest of the world feels about it.