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Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

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Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#101

Post by random3 »

collinmcnulty wrote: post #52
random3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet this is part correct, part wrong. Indeed every industry has some unique challenges that are not directly solvable. However, while a cast is absurdly expensive, the problem is being solved in large part by software in the FDM (3D printing) space and it's changing how things are built. edit: this doesn't invalidate the OP thesis, which I strongly agree with. Except that it's not just engineers, this is a more gener…

Do you work in this field or are you just reading that? I’ve been out of the game for over five years now, but as far as I can tell from people I know still in that world, if you’re going to make more than like … 3 of a part, casting is going to be much cheaper. And while you can do some prototyping on 3d prints, the nature of the material winds up different from a cast part.

I'm not building molds, but I'm actively researching the field in conjunction with my work. Based on what I'm seeing and reading things have changed in the last few years dramatically. Concretely in the selective laser sintering (SLS) Formlabs is redefining small-scale manufacturing. But don't get distracted by the "small-scale". It's a bit like how small servers replaced mainframes. Production lines are getting replaced by much more versatile alternatives.

Formlabs recently launched a $80K industrial-grade machine that works better than it's $500K alternatives.

https://formlabs.com/blog/announcing-fuse-x1-industrial-sls/ https://formlabs.com/blog/diy-injection-molding/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TvjUVdn3YQ&t=2586s

Formlabs is used by Tesla to print car parts to Ukraine to print drones.

The thing about SLS is that it works with metal too. So you have startups like Divergent (recently raised $290M) in LA printing car engines https://www.latimes.com/b2b/space-tech/story/2026-06-23/dive...

Note that rocket engines are 3d printed too from SpaceX to India's Sky Roots https://www.selfcad.com/blog/how-spacex-uses-additive-manufa... https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/skyroots-vikram-1-reache...

So is injection molding more effective than additive manufacturing? This question is a bit like "no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim".

But while you have metal at industrial scale you have "desktop" metal printers for ~$10K https://all3dp.com/4/first-look-at-the-scrap-1-desktop-metal...

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#102

Post by random3 »

buildsjets wrote: post #56
random3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet this is part correct, part wrong. Indeed every industry has some unique challenges that are not directly solvable. However, while a cast is absurdly expensive, the problem is being solved in large part by software in the FDM (3D printing) space and it's changing how things are built. edit: this doesn't invalidate the OP thesis, which I strongly agree with. Except that it's not just engineers, this is a more gener…

That's totally untrue. You clearly do not have any experience designing, building, manufacturing, testing, and certifying either cast metal or PBF parts. BTW, PBF is powerbed fusion and it is how you make 3D printed metal parts. FDM is a plastic manufacturing process and has nothing at all to do with replacing metal castings. For a certain aircraft part that I designed, that measured approximately 16"x8"x10", if you…

I wrote FDM instead of additive manufacturing. I'm referring to is actually in SLS (selective laser sintering) space (which is what you refer as PBF?)

What I'm seeing is that companies like Formlabs (plastics) and divergent (metal) are changing the game and you have car parts to car engines to rocket engines being 3d printed.

See my other comment above for more links, but things seem to be changing fast in manufacturing.

Edit:

I think this quote sums the point though:

“With the increased throughput and decreased costs, Fuse X1 has completely changed our perspective on what kinds of projects our lab can support versus what we would have traditionally moved to an injection mold.” Cody Jepsen, Engineering Technician, Additive Manufacturing at Tesla Giga NV

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#103

Post by andrekandre »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #80
psunavy03 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obvious to anyone who hasn't swallowed orthodoxy Agile development completely whole. What? One of the first principles in doing Lean and Agile correctly is limiting Work in Progress and avoiding context switching whenever possible.

Most organizations are not doing Agile correctly. Everywhere I've worked claims to be doing Agile, but none of them have ever done anything to avoid context switching or limiting work in progress

if its like anything i've experienced in multiple places, they are just implementing scrum and calling it a day.

meanwhile the business runs on quarterly projects that have to be done by a certain marketing date, so its usually scrum + waterfall over and over

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#104

Post by naasking »

collinmcnulty wrote: post #52
random3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet this is part correct, part wrong. Indeed every industry has some unique challenges that are not directly solvable. However, while a cast is absurdly expensive, the problem is being solved in large part by software in the FDM (3D printing) space and it's changing how things are built. edit: this doesn't invalidate the OP thesis, which I strongly agree with. Except that it's not just engineers, this is a more gener…

Do you work in this field or are you just reading that? I’ve been out of the game for over five years now, but as far as I can tell from people I know still in that world, if you’re going to make more than like … 3 of a part, casting is going to be much cheaper. And while you can do some prototyping on 3d prints, the nature of the material winds up different from a cast part.

You'd need hundreds, if not thousands, of parts to justify a mold for casting. And even then, by the time you got the mold made you could have already printed hundreds of parts on a print farm, so you're losing time too.

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#105

Post by random3 »

robocat wrote: post #96
cush wrote: post #47

That’s because most Software Engineers aren’t Engineers, they’re computer science majors. It’s a completely different discipline.

That's a strawman argument, because most engineers aren't engineers. The vast majority of engineers have no consequences for their shite. Neither is certification a panacea against bad engineers. Watch mechanical engineers design plastic rubbish. Watch some electronic engineers design circuits that don't work. Watch some geotech engineers make up overspecified bullshit: because they're paid per hour and their work is…

Yes. This. Also I don't think most software engineers are CS majors, either :)

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#106

Post by ThrowawayTestr »

robocat wrote: post #96
cush wrote: post #47

That’s because most Software Engineers aren’t Engineers, they’re computer science majors. It’s a completely different discipline.

That's a strawman argument, because most engineers aren't engineers. The vast majority of engineers have no consequences for their shite. Neither is certification a panacea against bad engineers. Watch mechanical engineers design plastic rubbish. Watch some electronic engineers design circuits that don't work. Watch some geotech engineers make up overspecified bullshit: because they're paid per hour and their work is…

>The vast majority of engineers have no consequences for their shite.

What do you base this on? In my country, engineers are legally responsible for their designs.

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#107

Post by cush »

robocat wrote: post #96
cush wrote: post #47

That’s because most Software Engineers aren’t Engineers, they’re computer science majors. It’s a completely different discipline.

That's a strawman argument, because most engineers aren't engineers. The vast majority of engineers have no consequences for their shite. Neither is certification a panacea against bad engineers. Watch mechanical engineers design plastic rubbish. Watch some electronic engineers design circuits that don't work. Watch some geotech engineers make up overspecified bullshit: because they're paid per hour and their work is…

That is categorically untrue. Professional Engineers not only face consequences, they are personally liable for the work they put their stamp on, and they can lose their license

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#108

Post by defrost »

robocat wrote: post #96
cush wrote: post #47

That’s because most Software Engineers aren’t Engineers, they’re computer science majors. It’s a completely different discipline.

That's a strawman argument, because most engineers aren't engineers. The vast majority of engineers have no consequences for their shite. Neither is certification a panacea against bad engineers. Watch mechanical engineers design plastic rubbish. Watch some electronic engineers design circuits that don't work. Watch some geotech engineers make up overspecified bullshit: because they're paid per hour and their work is…

The Christchurch CTV building was supposedly built to the code standard of the early 1980s, it was a non-ductile reinforced concrete structure.

Supposedly is heavily stressed, the Royal Commission investigating found a lack of communication between the official structural design engineers (Alan Reay Consultants), the actual engineer employed for the design (David Harding) and somewhat more critically the "engineer" on the ground implementing the building's construction (Gerald Shirtcliff).

Gerald Shirtcliff had faked his engineering degree.

Despite all this the building passed inspection and stood for 25 years, passing two additional inspections in 2010 (a year prior to collapse) after two separate earthquakes.

> they often get away with it for a variety of reasons.

  The documents show police wanted to charge Harding and Reay with manslaughter. Christchurch Crown Solicitor Mark Zarifeh believed the evidential sufficiency test was met by expert evidence from engineering firm Beca.  

  Deputy Solicitor-General Brendan Horsley disagreed. 

  Horsley said for charges of negligent manslaughter, the Crown had to prove the conduct was so bad it deserved to be condemned as a serious crime. It would be difficult to show the conduct was one of the main causes of the deaths.   

  "A key difficulty for the prosecution would be in proving the CTV building would not have collapsed in the absence of the identified design errors," he said.

  Another obstacle was the length of time between the design and when the deaths occurred.
~ stuff.co.nz

That's the dot point overview, and FWiW the actual design engineers got professional black marks on their careers and the case is still heavily studied in formal civil engineering courses.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTV_Building

* https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/99399561/police-will-not-pr...

Re: Engineers will do anything to avoid learning from history

#109

Post by xnx »

Areading314 wrote: post #66

The central point, that working with agents is some tried and true variation of existing processes, is incorrect. Managing agents has some similarities with EM and program management but a whole lot of other dimensions like token use, avoiding drift, successful concurrency at scale, variations in prompting, testing, evaluation, etc., not to mention that the agents are hyperintelligent coders with zero common sense an…

How many of these complications will anyone even remember in 12 months?
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