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Gemini 3.7 Flash

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Re: Gemini 3.7 Flash

#251

Post by deadmutex »

aix1 wrote: post #162
deadmutex wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "let's make money by selling/renting out TPUs" faction has won and the "let's make money by training and selling a frontier model" faction has lost. Citation needed. also, why can't a massive company do two things?

With all due respect, did you read my comment beyond the first paragraph? It addresses both points, TPU economics/pivot to sales + internal shortages making it hard to train models, to the extent they can be addressed based on public sources. There are other factors at play, but they're more recent/second-order.

There are a lot of assumptions there that are not verified.

Re: Gemini 3.7 Flash

#252

Post by tym0 »

jolux wrote: post #197
tym0 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does not bloat up the context window too fast with reasoning tokens How much does that matter if it's reset at every turn?

what do you mean by reset at every turn? context stays until compaction. if you remove the reasoning tokens after every turn you will be constantly blowing cache which is far worse than filling up context.

That's not my understanding of how most agents work. This is what a chain of request/response looks like:

  Your Prompt 1: Prompt Content 1 -> cache-1
  LLM Response 1: Thinking Content 1 Response Content 1
  Your Prompt 2 (client side): prompt-1 + response-without-thinking-1 + Prompt Content 2
  Your Prompt 2 (server side): cache-1  + response-without-thinking-1 + Prompt Content 2 -> cache-2
  LLM Response 2: Thinking Content 2 Response Content 2
  Etc...
So reasoning gets dropped from context and you still get cache from the accumulating requests.

Edit:

I've realised I was incorrect, the thinking doesn't get passed back and forth but the latent snapshot does which result in using memory just the same.

Re: Gemini 3.7 Flash

#253

Post by tym0 »

Alifatisk wrote: post #194
tym0 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does not bloat up the context window too fast with reasoning tokens How much does that matter if it's reset at every turn?

Does it reset at every turn? From my experience in Codex for example, Luna (Max) fills the 256k token window relatively quick. The only thing lowering the context window again is the compaction.

I mean the thinking does not bloat the context window because it gets dropped at the next request.

Re: Gemini 3.7 Flash

#254

Post by knollimar »

ur-whale wrote: post #246
krat0sprakhar wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you help me understand how it is hard to get an API key from Google? You just head on over to http://aistudio.google.com/api-keys and create a key... not any different from platform.openai.com? Disclaimer: I work in Google so it might be that this link is not publicly well known

> Can you help me understand how it is hard to get an API key from Google? Using Google products in general is an effing nightmare as soon as you have to give them money. The one thing you want in a business is to remove friction when people want to give you money, a concept Google has never been able to understand.

Google if you're reading this, it does not mean I do not want limits on spending

Re: Gemini 3.7 Flash

#255

Post by sireat »

krat0sprakhar wrote: post #215
jjcm wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other thoughts: I really think Google has fallen behind here. Even as a high speed offering (this build took ~7min, which is pretty good!), it wont be able to claim dominance for long with cerebras announcing the Sol preview today: https://www.cerebras.ai/blog/accelerating-gpt-5-6-sol-ultraf... . It's not a bad model by any means, but I just don't know what situation I'd reach for 3.7 Flash first for. Google really n…

Can you help me understand how it is hard to get an API key from Google? You just head on over to http://aistudio.google.com/api-keys and create a key... not any different from platform.openai.com? Disclaimer: I work in Google so it might be that this link is not publicly well known

Maybe things have changed but it was a big mess trying to getting an API key from Google as an individual a few years ago. Way too much conflicting documentation.

Eventually I gave up and run a few hundred million tokens (edit a few billion) through openrouter.ai using Gemini Flash 1.5 to Flash 2.5

Every since price increases on Flash 3.0 I've stopped using Gemini, too expensive for basic classification, sentiment detection, ocr etc.

As other posters said Google assumes you are some bigcorp trying to use their products. The Vertex versus AI studio confusion did not help.

Re: Gemini 3.7 Flash

#256

Post by dzhiurgis »

jjcm wrote: post #133
jjcm wrote: post #106

Here's a image->html test. Gemini has always swung above its weight class for vision work, so I'm always eager to try it with this. Original images: https://image.non.io/neonRamenDesigns.webp Gemini 3.7 build: https://html.non.io/neonRamenGemini3.7 Opus 5 build for comparison: https://html.non.io/neonRamen Opus is still best in class for this, but it's worth noting how well Gemini 3.7 does vs a more comparable LLM pr…

Other thoughts: I really think Google has fallen behind here. Even as a high speed offering (this build took ~7min, which is pretty good!), it wont be able to claim dominance for long with cerebras announcing the Sol preview today: https://www.cerebras.ai/blog/accelerating-gpt-5-6-sol-ultraf... . It's not a bad model by any means, but I just don't know what situation I'd reach for 3.7 Flash first for. Google really n…

It's much cheaper tho. Junie says Fable is 5-10x more than default model (Gemini 3 Flash Preview).

Re: Gemini 3.7 Flash

#257

Post by xyzsparetimexyz »

jjcm wrote: post #106

Here's a image->html test. Gemini has always swung above its weight class for vision work, so I'm always eager to try it with this. Original images: https://image.non.io/neonRamenDesigns.webp Gemini 3.7 build: https://html.non.io/neonRamenGemini3.7 Opus 5 build for comparison: https://html.non.io/neonRamen Opus is still best in class for this, but it's worth noting how well Gemini 3.7 does vs a more comparable LLM pr…

This has so much less character than the pelican smdh..

Plus is the ramen in HK even any good?

Re: Gemini 3.7 Flash

#258

Post by rabid_0wl »

codazoda wrote: post #137
jjcm wrote: post #106

Here's a image->html test. Gemini has always swung above its weight class for vision work, so I'm always eager to try it with this. Original images: https://image.non.io/neonRamenDesigns.webp Gemini 3.7 build: https://html.non.io/neonRamenGemini3.7 Opus 5 build for comparison: https://html.non.io/neonRamen Opus is still best in class for this, but it's worth noting how well Gemini 3.7 does vs a more comparable LLM pr…

How are you doing this with Opus. Clearly I’m missing something. I always turn to ChatGPT when I need images because Opus typically refuses. I’ve tried Claude Code and Claude online in the past. I’m pretty sure neither created images for me and I thought this was because Anthropic was focused on code. I guess I need to try harder. :)

You can just have claude code run the codex imagen via cli.

Re: Gemini 3.7 Flash

#259

Post by pimeys »

z_rho_one wrote: post #196
Alifatisk wrote: post #115

Ever since the insane discount with GPT-5.6 Luna, not much excites me anymore. I mean just look at the benchmarks, even though Gemini 3.7 Flash performs well on the DeepSWE 1.1, Luna (Max) still performs way better. I personally have stuck to Luna (Xhigh) because its been more than enough and does not bloat up the context window too fast with reasoning tokens. https://deepswe.datacurve.ai > Starting January 1, 2027,…

GPT-5.6 Luna is an insanely powerful model for its price. It's been great for coding workflows where I guide the LLM's hand step by step. It's also insane to see my weekly limit drop by than 2% after an hour of coding ever since the discount. However, I've noticed 2 drawbacks with Luna. Context rot is much more palpable than Terra and Sol. It tends to get confused and go into rabbit holes when it's context gets fille…

Yes it is cheap, but per task DeepSeek v4 Flash is a bit more expensive and lands between Terra and Gemini 3.6 Flash in quality. Closer to Gemini than Terra...

Re: Gemini 3.7 Flash

#260

Post by pimeys »

peab wrote: post #70
wxw wrote: post #41

They need to release benchmarks against Luna/Terra. Luna is much cheaper which feels like it undercuts the need for Flash. I've always considered the Flash series of models to be for low-cost, high-volume, mostly text-based use cases (e.g. summarization, parsing, formatting), emphasis on low-cost. [edit: ah, benchmarks here: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/models-and-research/ge... more of a Terra than Luna com…

gemini flash is probably the best model for visual tasks right now. they also make it really easy to ingest videos

It is also very good and cheap for computer use.
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