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DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

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Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#461

Post by setsewerd »

jeswin wrote: post #371
simonw wrote: post #136

Nice bicycle chain, the little basket with a fish didn't show up in the right place: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht...

For a while now, I've found pelican rendering to be an unreliable metric for LLM ability - and most people know it. Yet, somehow it gets upvoted to the very top of every new model discussion.

As others commenters said, it's amusing. But also the person you're replying to is the guy who created the pelican test in the first place and I appreciate the whimsy he brings to the discussion.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#462

Post by yipinwong »

Eueudhsbsj32 wrote: post #79
yipinwong wrote: post #59

Worse than Luna but more expensive than Luna. Sticking with Luna without sending my data to Deepseek (China)

Unless you're Chinese, why would you care if they see your data? As an American, I'd much rather have my data kept outside the country than here where companies and the government have a lot more leverage over me.

Premise is wrong, "unless you're chinese".

Don't matter whether you are chinese or not, anything going to China will be used against you.

And also you are cherry-picking my comment on "China" as my emphasis was on Luna >>> DeepSeek.

You just are not reading my intention.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#463

Post by kanemcgrath »

jeswin wrote: post #371
simonw wrote: post #136

Nice bicycle chain, the little basket with a fish didn't show up in the right place: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht...

For a while now, I've found pelican rendering to be an unreliable metric for LLM ability - and most people know it. Yet, somehow it gets upvoted to the very top of every new model discussion.

Because of all the svg rendering stuff, I added a draw_svg tool to my harness and it has been really nice to get a quick mock-up of ui changes. And conveniently, the new DeepSeek models are really good at knowing when to use it. So I do look at pelican rendering as a small metric of useful capability.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#464

Post by biztos »

simonw wrote: post #136

Nice bicycle chain, the little basket with a fish didn't show up in the right place: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht...

Basket? Fish? All I see is the model recursively running itself locally on an eye-pad, which for some reason beyond our understanding is obscuring the invisible fork.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#465

Post by xbmcuser »

adventured wrote: post #394
xbmcuser wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the problem currently the subscription plans are being subsidized by VC money and token buyers. When Open weight get good enough token buyers build their own servers instead of buying tokens then no one to subsidize the subscriptions

99.9%+ of the tech worker population will never be able to build their own servers to run future frontier models. Kimi 3 is an indication of what's coming. These models will keep getting drastically larger. The hardware isn't getting cheaper anytime soon (no matter what China does; that goes for memory and GPUs). Cycle forward to Fable 7, Kimi 5, GPT 7 a couple years out. Forget about it unless you own a datacenter.

90% of the tech worker population does not work for themselves they work for someone that pays them 1000s in salary for those paying those tech worker spending $40-50k on a server that helps them not pay for 2-3 tech workers is not that big a deal.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#466

Post by srigi »

simjnd wrote: post #446

Deepseek V4 Flash 0731 was such a massive jump in capability for such a small model (and price), that I'm a bit disappointed by this release. I keep my agents on tight leashes, using them very interactively for bouncing off ideas, architecture, and then writing code (especially prototyping) and Flash has been crushing everything I ever needed it to do. Maybe my ambitions are too tame compared to people needing Fable…

People when OW LLM looks good in benchmarks: benchmaxxxed

People when OW LLM looks mediocre in benchmarks: disappointed

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#467

Post by qlte »

hgoel wrote: post #105
bikemike026 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read Opus 5's output, it is beyond the comprehension of virtually all engineers and developers. That is what I mean by intelligence. Math, science, and engineering are all contained in one model. We may be experts in one field. The model is an expert in everything that humans know.

I don't think that's because of its "intelligence". It speaks obtuse techbro-ese: stringing together words that sound smart to obscure the simplicity of the thing it's describing. In many ways it's the opposite of intelligence. Opus 5 and Fable 5 in particular suffer from this issue at worse level than most models in the same class.

  > stringing together words that sound smart to obscure the simplicity of the thing it's describing
Laser targeted at LessWrong posters

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#468

Post by [deleted] »

theyliesoeasily wrote: post #246
vrganj wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody from neither the US nor China, this argument would be much stronger if the US hadn't started acting like a rogue state - starting wars of aggression and messing up the world's energy supply, actively speeding up climate change, kidnapping leaders of sovereign nations, threatening its allies (!) with invasion, etc etc. The CCP's not great either, sure. But the Americans don't really have a leg to stand on…

To be fair the US has been doing this its entire history, it just stopped pretending. C.f. Hawaii, Guatemala, Cuba, Chile, "The Jakarta Method", etc. etc. etc.

[deleted]

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#469

Post by anigbrowl »

khimaros wrote: post #280
simonw wrote: post #136

Nice bicycle chain, the little basket with a fish didn't show up in the right place: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht...

these links never work for me. always "Error: Enter a valid URL" when opening in Firefox. maybe a URL escape issue with Glider?

Is this really the right place to bring up an issue with a 3rd party frontend for HN?

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#470

Post by WASDx »

big-chungus4 wrote: post #363

So flash is 52 points on artificial analysis, and pro is 53

On DeepSWE it's now 53% vs 63% which is one of the coding benchmarks I trust the most. DS own measurements also show a more significant increase so I suspect AA might update when they release an article.

Surprisingly DeepSWE currently shows a lower total cost for pro so that might also update I guess. As usual, don't trust the benchmarks and try for yourself.

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