From what I've seen, most of the contributors to large projects are one-time contributors who just want to implement their one cool idea for the project. Maintainers who want to encourage those sort of contributions need to do everything they can to lower the barrier of entry to contributing, which includes being positive towards new contributors.
Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
101–110 of 190 posts
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hence the "sympathize" part, but then again, I also sympathize with people who are human and eventually want to start inflicting bodily harm on people who can't be arsed to read the FAQ before A'ing the same Q again. Part of the "bar to entry" is that mindset. You don't get a pat on the back and warm encouragement for submitting crap code. You get told your code is crap with the expectation you'll improve before wast…
You sir are a douchebag, and I won't participate in any project you're associated with. I don't understand why everyone's pussyfooting around this guy. Please? No offense? This guy is THE PROBLEM. He doesn't get a pat on the back and warm encouragement for providing crap people skills. People skills are part of a project too, just like code. I downvote rude people on HN, and ascribe to the idea of not saying somethin…
You downvote me for an opinion (which is simply "stupid people should not be coddled") absent any animus to any person on this board (you including), and yet I'm the douchebag.
Heal thyself, doctor.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#103Chances are, mr or mrs open source elite, you have been on the receiving end of this in your life.
Exactly, and that's why they do it to others! That may be their default (not consciously-chosen) behavior because it's what they got used to.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hence the "sympathize" part, but then again, I also sympathize with people who are human and eventually want to start inflicting bodily harm on people who can't be arsed to read the FAQ before A'ing the same Q again. Part of the "bar to entry" is that mindset. You don't get a pat on the back and warm encouragement for submitting crap code. You get told your code is crap with the expectation you'll improve before wast…
Sounds more like you love the environment because you feel good shooting people down rather than what's best for the project (and open-source) long-term. This attitude is why more people don't contribute to - and become better at - the process.
Sometimes shooting people down is what's best for the project. You make it sound like those are mutually exclusive.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#105This isn't restricted to open source project leaders, or even open source developers. You'll find the same childish elitism in pretty much every field of human endeavor. Programmers certainly do it. Laughing at noobs and being mean to them is pretty much the sole purpose of IRC, unless I'm mistaken. Surfers do it. Climbers do it. I've even seen rocket scientists do it. The interesting thing is watching which members…
I went through this phase as a climber (fortunately it preceded my career as a programmer, so I learned my lesson), and I've gotten over myself, and realized that no matter what I do, there are scores of people who are better, and more humble. Also I am rather jealous you live in Fountainbleau. Very.
You bring up a point that is interesting to me. Why does it matter to our own humility if there exist people that are better/smarter/abler than we are?
It does matter to me, but I feel it shouldn't. Woe to me if I am ever the best at anything, I'm sure I'd be a paragon of intolerance for my lessers.
And yet, some of the smartest people I know, people who very well know their own ability, are the among the kindest people I know.
On the flipside, I know some "less gifted" people that are equally as kind.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#106This isn't restricted to open source project leaders, or even open source developers. You'll find the same childish elitism in pretty much every field of human endeavor. Programmers certainly do it. Laughing at noobs and being mean to them is pretty much the sole purpose of IRC, unless I'm mistaken. Surfers do it. Climbers do it. I've even seen rocket scientists do it. The interesting thing is watching which members…
I had the same experience in the dance world. I was privileged enough to be able to train with national and world champions. At the lower end of that scale, people were incredibly full of themselves. Work with somebody who's recognized world wide? She's the nicest person ever. (Even though I clearly wasn't as good as she'd have liked me to be ;) It's inspiring to work with people who don't have anything to prove to y…
Yes, this is because the experts don't feel threatened by noobs. They know they are actually experts, so they don't need to stoop to the level of picking on noobs to make them selves feel like experts. It's the "nervous middle classes" that feel a need to pick on noobs to reassure themselves.
PG wrote an article that describes this same phenomenon vis-a-vis nerds and popular kids in school:
If I remember correctly, the most popular kids don't persecute nerds; they don't need to stoop to such things. Most of the persecution comes from kids lower down, the nervous middle classes.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
You sir are a douchebag, and I won't participate in any project you're associated with. I don't understand why everyone's pussyfooting around this guy. Please? No offense? This guy is THE PROBLEM. He doesn't get a pat on the back and warm encouragement for providing crap people skills. People skills are part of a project too, just like code. I downvote rude people on HN, and ascribe to the idea of not saying somethin…
You downvote me for an opinion (which is simply "stupid people should not be coddled") absent any animus to any person on this board (you including), and yet I'm the douchebag. Heal thyself, doctor.
Yes, I find it useful to stand up for others.
This applies to any project. If one sees others being mistreated, one should vote with one's feet and leave. The defense of "but they're treating me fine" is the height of hypocrisy.
Stupidity is an aesthetic judgement. We all run into people it's too hard to help, people we might call stupid under our breath. When this happens to me I move on in silence, rather than turn my aesthetic judgement into generalizations that sully the forum (mailing list, irc channel, etc.) for everyone.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
When the goal is to change behavior as a whole it helps to not point anyone out. If you linked to a Github pull request that demonstrates this behavior, that guy now becomes the eye of the storm, instead of the community where the focus should be. If the author did that, we'd all be talking about how githubuserxyz is such an ass for belittling contributors and how dissimilar we each individually are from githubuserxy…
This doesn't seem like an activity that's rampant in the community in any fashion. I personally only recall it happening once, ever, and I've been a contributor to open source projects for almost ten years.
> This doesn't seem like an activity that's rampant in the community in any fashion. I personally only recall it happening once, ever, and I've been a contributor to open source projects for almost ten years.
If a lot of other people are talking about the negative consequences of something you personally haven't experienced, generalizing outwards from your own experiences to conclude that something a lot of other people have experienced doesn't exist is a pretty wrongheaded way to approach life.
Maybe you've just been lucky.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#109I have to wonder how many people see Linus Torvald's behavior and think what he does is OK. Linus walks a VERY fine line, and his insults and demeaning comments are usually directed at people who "know better." I have had a few drinks so it's hard to properly articulate what I mean, but maybe somebody else knows what I'm talking about.
I have Harley Hahn's Unix book (2009 edition I think). In it, he describes some of the reasons Linux grew so quickly. One of them is that "Linus has a pleasing personality... in person or online, Linus pretty much gets along with everyone because he is so easygoing. As he once observed in an interview, 'Unlike Richard Stallman, I really don't have a message.'" This part struck me - as a college student who hasn't bee…
So, assuming my impression and Hahn's are both accurate - what changed?
Nothing. The only difference is if you're on a mailing list that Linus frequents, or if you're only reading a single post from that list bereft of context because someone sent you a link to the point where Linus puts his foot down.
Its like Zed Shaw, he wrote a great introduction to programming book I frequently recommend and even helps random people learn over twitter and email. But post some of his work on HN and you'll find a bunch of people still sore about a single angry rant he wrote a few years ago.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#110this blog post has a major omission of any specifics whatsoever. I've never seen this kind of behavior, and I'm having a great urge to say something like, "oh well because PHP/Ruby/etc". But that is all prejudicial. Won't we be given some specifics so that we don't have to guess what famous OSS author actually typed "HAHAHA" at a pull request ?
It's hard to believe that people "have never seen this behaviour" have spent much time watching the OSS community. Ulrich Dreper, well known OSS contributor and former steward of glibc, was famous for flaming the ever-living shit out of anyone who dared submit a patch that he in any way did not care for. To give but one example, http://www.sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2000-08/msg00053.htm...