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Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk

lostechies.com

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Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk

#91

Post by tjbiddle »

There are a lot of other angles we can look at this as well: The user ("I need.."), The cocky contributor ("This is right, accept my pull request!"), The belittled contributor ("I'm not sure.. but let me try.."), The helpful leader ("I can't accept this because it will break xyz.") The douche leader (As the article stated: "LOL!"), and the cocky leader ("No, that's wrong." - And then they realize later it's actually right, but they're attitude made them not look at a worthy contribution in the right light correctly.)

The article makes a good point - But there's a lot more we can take out of this, that being that for any community to succeed, it needs to be just that: A community. A place where others help each other grow.

Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk

#92

Post by kmfrk »

Spooky23 wrote: post #85
jasonkester wrote: post #53

This isn't restricted to open source project leaders, or even open source developers. You'll find the same childish elitism in pretty much every field of human endeavor. Programmers certainly do it. Laughing at noobs and being mean to them is pretty much the sole purpose of IRC, unless I'm mistaken. Surfers do it. Climbers do it. I've even seen rocket scientists do it. The interesting thing is watching which members…

I think that everyone who has ambition hits this at some point. There comes a point in time where your domain knowledge lets you speak or act authoritatively with little or no preparation for most things. The natural tendency at this point is to think "Yup, I'm a just a smart mofo" and pat yourself on the back. The key to moving up the chain of expertise/etc is to transcend that tendency. Humility is a skill, because…

Especially in "developed tastes" where you suddenly can't stand "inferior"

* music

* typography

* movies

* food

* wine

* art

* fashion

And so on and so forth. Of course, there is always someone out there who is better than you with better tastes, and people sometimes forget to see this as a humbling fact.

Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk

#93

Post by woah »

codewright wrote: post #88
pnathan wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Laughing at noobs and being mean to them is pretty much the sole purpose of IRC, unless I'm mistaken. You are. In the IRC channels I frequent, the purpose is one of (1) being social, or (2) being helpful. Some channels tolerate wilful ignorance/trolls less than others though. Of course, there might be other channels with nastier cultures, but the sole purpose of IRC is not to be nasty to noobs.

Some IRC channels I'm in are great. (Hi Clojure! Hi Haskell! You guys are really nice!) Some are like ##C which is a hive of scum and villainy.

Just went in ##C-unregistered, and they were quite nice

Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk

#94

Post by lvh »

jasonkester wrote: post #53

This isn't restricted to open source project leaders, or even open source developers. You'll find the same childish elitism in pretty much every field of human endeavor. Programmers certainly do it. Laughing at noobs and being mean to them is pretty much the sole purpose of IRC, unless I'm mistaken. Surfers do it. Climbers do it. I've even seen rocket scientists do it. The interesting thing is watching which members…

That's certainly not the sole purpose of IRC. Perhaps you're frequenting the wrong channels. For example, ##c on freenode is notably caustic.

Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk

#95

Post by stephengillie »

kmfrk wrote: post #92
Spooky23 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that everyone who has ambition hits this at some point. There comes a point in time where your domain knowledge lets you speak or act authoritatively with little or no preparation for most things. The natural tendency at this point is to think "Yup, I'm a just a smart mofo" and pat yourself on the back. The key to moving up the chain of expertise/etc is to transcend that tendency. Humility is a skill, because…

Especially in "developed tastes" where you suddenly can't stand "inferior" * music * typography * movies * food * wine * art * fashion And so on and so forth. Of course, there is always someone out there who is better than you with better tastes, and people sometimes forget to see this as a humbling fact.

http://xkcd.com/915/

Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk

#97

Post by ajross »

gav wrote: post #87
ajross wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how do you do that without occasionally handing over the maintainership of some important piece of infrastructure to someone who clearly can't handle it? The people at the top of the ladder right now are there because (and sure, there are exceptions) they are (1) very good at it, and (2) willing to do it. And they have employers who have made bets on those two facts. Those employers aren't really interested in so…

I'm making two assumptions here: firstly that there is a hierarchy of contributors, where triage doesn't have to be handled by the guys right at the top; and secondly that the first few submissions by a new person aren't major--they are going to attempt something small first. If the latter isn't the case, the response should be "sorry, we appreciate your help, but try to get some minor bug fixes in before a major arc…

That's actually not the way the real world works though. The primary "jerk" projects (mostly the kernel and Linux infrastructure) are dominated by submissions from paid, professional developers working on support for new features for their employers. These people are routinely coming from closed-source backgrounds, don't understand the project, don't write new feature with an eye to maintainability, and have an affirmative requirement from their managers to get their submissions accepted. As I mention, sadly, I'm in this set more often than not.

That's just not a recipe for fun. The "hair trigger rejection" filters are there because of all the junk that gets thrown at the maintainers. And either it makes them grumpy or is acceptable only to people who don't mind being rude. Either way, the "jerk" bit is a direct correlation.

Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk

#98

Post by rquirk »

kmfrk wrote: post #96

I don't see this in GitHub projects (so far), but this is the usual experience when asking for help on Stack Overflow or Freenode.

Nor do I. I've had lots of positive results on github, as puller and sender. The barrier to entry on github for sending a pull request is much higher than asking a "send me teh codez" question on Stack Overflow though. It's understandable that the more experienced contributers are burned out there. Rather than replying nastily maybe they should just leave the Eternal September that SO has become.

Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk

#99

Post by groby_b »

jasonkester wrote: post #53

This isn't restricted to open source project leaders, or even open source developers. You'll find the same childish elitism in pretty much every field of human endeavor. Programmers certainly do it. Laughing at noobs and being mean to them is pretty much the sole purpose of IRC, unless I'm mistaken. Surfers do it. Climbers do it. I've even seen rocket scientists do it. The interesting thing is watching which members…

I had the same experience in the dance world. I was privileged enough to be able to train with national and world champions. At the lower end of that scale, people were incredibly full of themselves.

Work with somebody who's recognized world wide? She's the nicest person ever. (Even though I clearly wasn't as good as she'd have liked me to be ;)

It's inspiring to work with people who don't have anything to prove to you, but have more than enough to show you.

Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk

#100

Post by trafficlight »

stephengillie wrote: post #95
kmfrk wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially in "developed tastes" where you suddenly can't stand "inferior" * music * typography * movies * food * wine * art * fashion And so on and so forth. Of course, there is always someone out there who is better than you with better tastes, and people sometimes forget to see this as a humbling fact.

http://xkcd.com/915/

"Our brains have just one scale and it resizes our experiences to fit."

That's such an astute observation. I can see how I do that in my own life.

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