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Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

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Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#111

Post by codegeek »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #72
untog wrote: post #4

I can't wait until the part where we all don't talk about gun control and carry on as usual. Sigh. EDIT: I see my post is being downvoted. I know that it may come across as insensitive to immediately leap to the gun control debate, but frankly I'm more angry than upset by this news. How many times does it have to happen? We have a good 48 hours of emotional outpouring and then everyone forgets it ever happened.

This has nothing to do with gun control. Guns exist, that can't be stopped any more than preventing alcohol from existing (prohibition), and some bad guys will always have access to guns. Or knives, or diesel fuel, or explosives. Was the Oklahoma-city bombing a wake-up call for "explosives control"? Was the 2009 Chengdu bus-fire ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Chengdu_bus_fire ) a wake-up call for diesel control?…

"It's not the gun. It never was the gun. It's the person."

This kind of zero sum game attitude is a problem in my opinion. yes, Guns are used by people and they don't shoot by themselves. But better controls must be put in place to at least try and keep it away from crazy people. I am saying try, make it harder. If you have a toddler in the house and he starts playing with knives, would you blame it on the toddler ? No, I would say that you need to ensure that the toddler does not get his hands on the knife. Is it possible that he could still do it ? Sure. But is it harder if u hide them? Sure.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#112

Post by ceejayoz »

pdeuchler wrote: post #84
jacquesm wrote: post #56

The psychology behind the kind of people that could do a thing like this baffles me completely. Insanity doesn't begin to describe it. Parents should not have to worry about whether or not their children are safe in school. At the same time armed guards at school are not a solution either, then you might as well turn it into a mini prison. What a sad sad day. Even countries with gun control have instances like this (…

In my ever so humble opinion, it's a population issue. When you have a population size of 300 million you're going to get a lot more outliers (crazy people) than if you have a population of 7 million. Statistically, you will also have crazier people.

> When you have a population size of 300 million you're going to get a lot more outliers (crazy people) than if you have a population of 7 million. Statistically, you will also have crazier people.

So consider the EU, with a roughly equivalent population.

Statistically, once you hit a few million people, you've got enough people involved that the proportion of outliers has stabilized pretty well.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#113

Post by mattvanhorn »

marknutter wrote: post #58
malkia wrote: post #12

Horrible news. Also in China someone this morning stabbed 22 children at elementary school - wtf... http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2012/12/14/man-stabs-...

When are we going to start talking about knife control in a serious way?

When the mass stabbing has more fatalities than the mass shooting. That no one died in the stabbing attack, makes a pretty good argument for some form of gun control.

(Actually, I prefer Chris Rock's idea for bullet control. Make it too expensive to buy enough for mass shootings.)

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#114

Post by jacquesm »

purplelobster wrote: post #98
jacquesm wrote: post #56

The psychology behind the kind of people that could do a thing like this baffles me completely. Insanity doesn't begin to describe it. Parents should not have to worry about whether or not their children are safe in school. At the same time armed guards at school are not a solution either, then you might as well turn it into a mini prison. What a sad sad day. Even countries with gun control have instances like this (…

Can pro-gun people please stop using Switzerland as their go to argument? Do you know why they have so many guns? Because people who have done military service are required to keep a rifle locked up in their house. These are trained people who have gone through psychology tests and military training. That is very very fucking different than the situation in the US.

I wouldn't qualify myself as 'pro-gun', rather the opposite.

Switzerland is interesting in many ways, one of which is the degree to which the government is very close to a true democracy, the fact that they don't waste a ton of money on their defence (which has a lot to do with them being in a geographically special position) and in the way that they have guns but abuse is low.

The fact that this is very different to the situation in the US might hold some clues to what could be done about this.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#115

Post by swalsh »

dmm wrote: post #60
untog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are. Where exactly do I make that assumption? You'll notice that I didn't even call for a blanket ban on guns, just that, as a nation, we could actually sit down and have a serious talk about whether people should be able to own weapons like this one for private use: [EDIT: I regret posting the link to the rifle,…

What's so significant about that rifle? That it's black and scary looking? Here's a semiauto rifle with the same calibre: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Min... Would that one be more acceptable because it has a wood stock?

Exactly, if I'm going to get shot (which i'm generally against in principle) I'd hope it was a AR-15 and not an AK for instance. The round will fuck you up, but you might get to wake up in a hospital.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#116

Post by untog »

Spooky23 wrote: post #59
untog wrote: post #4

I can't wait until the part where we all don't talk about gun control and carry on as usual. Sigh. EDIT: I see my post is being downvoted. I know that it may come across as insensitive to immediately leap to the gun control debate, but frankly I'm more angry than upset by this news. How many times does it have to happen? We have a good 48 hours of emotional outpouring and then everyone forgets it ever happened.

Gun control is the easy answer. I want to know how we as a society can figure out why people get frustrated, depressed, or angry to the point that shooting up a kindergarten enters into the picture. We don't know the backstory here, but usually these events are all about someone whose life is spinning out of control for any of a dozen reasons, and either nobody has a clue that anything was wrong or everyone thought t…

Is gun control the easy answer, or the achievable answer? How can we ensure that no-one's life gets to the point where they shoot up a kindergarten? What exactly are we going to be checking for, and how will we do it?

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#118

Post by cheeseprocedure »

jacquesm wrote: post #103
chimeracoder wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This world could be so nice, why does it have to be such a crappy place? Nice stuff happens. It just doesn't make (or sell) the news. But that doesn't mean the world isn't nice.

Nice stuff happens but I find it hard to come up with a single instance that offsets grade schoolers being murdered in cold blood. Stuff like this just makes me want to cry.

How about the millions of children who have been educated for 13+ years in the public school systems and go on to lead fulfilling adult lives?

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#119

Post by dmm »

purplelobster wrote: post #98
jacquesm wrote: post #56

The psychology behind the kind of people that could do a thing like this baffles me completely. Insanity doesn't begin to describe it. Parents should not have to worry about whether or not their children are safe in school. At the same time armed guards at school are not a solution either, then you might as well turn it into a mini prison. What a sad sad day. Even countries with gun control have instances like this (…

Can pro-gun people please stop using Switzerland as their go to argument? Do you know why they have so many guns? Because people who have done military service are required to keep a rifle locked up in their house. These are trained people who have gone through psychology tests and military training. That is very very fucking different than the situation in the US.

Reread what he wrote, I don't think he was using Switzerland as a progun argument.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#120

Post by mvleming »

I think we have to be careful when things like this happen. It's god-awful. I can't imagine if I was in third grade and a guy barged in and started shooting up the place. But this makes me think of "You can always find evidence for your beliefs." I could take this story as evidence that the world is such a crappy place, but I don't believe that so I won't.

Everything will be okay.

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