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Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

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Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#81

Post by bcoates »

grkballer44 wrote: post #39

Within a couple years this exact scenario will play out. A gunmen will talk in a crowded place loaded to the gills. Assault rifles, bullet proof vest, explosives hid around the building. He will pull out his gun and kill the poor unsuspecting first soul. After that initial shot someone with a concealed weapons permit is going to blow his brains out cutting his rampage short ( I truly hope the person who plays the her…

Attempted mass shootings that fail like that don't get nearly as much news attention...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Colorado_YWAM_and_New_Life...

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#82

Post by chill1 »

DannoHung wrote: post #34
TallGuyShort wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say the same thing when people in oppressive regimes are silenced with no recourse because the government has no reason to fear it's own citizens. Sigh. I did not downvote your post, but frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are.

The weapons needed to resist a regime are not weapons we allow people to generally have in America at any rate. If we really believed in the 2nd Amendment, people would be allowed to own serious weapons of war but not be allowed to own concealable personal firearms.

> You have a natural right to self defense from all threats.

Foreign and imaginary.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#83

Post by recoiledsnake »

vyrotek wrote: post #62
lostlogin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. But did you using your spoon make 27 fat who didn't want to be?

Sure, the analogy is silly. The point really is that [Noun] Control is impossible. What about crossbows, knives and rocks? Things aren't the problem. People are the problem.

Lets not muddy the waters here. You mean the gunman could've used a number of crossbows, knives and rocks to take down so many people in such a short span of time?

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#84

Post by pdeuchler »

jacquesm wrote: post #56

The psychology behind the kind of people that could do a thing like this baffles me completely. Insanity doesn't begin to describe it. Parents should not have to worry about whether or not their children are safe in school. At the same time armed guards at school are not a solution either, then you might as well turn it into a mini prison. What a sad sad day. Even countries with gun control have instances like this (…

In my ever so humble opinion, it's a population issue.

When you have a population size of 300 million you're going to get a lot more outliers (crazy people) than if you have a population of 7 million. Statistically, you will also have crazier people.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#85

Post by short_circut »

lostlogin wrote: post #31
bstewartny wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gun control cant and wont solve these problems. These are societal problems. Anyone insane and evil enough to kill children would get guns on the black market or use some other weapon such as a bomb. Schools need to able to have armed guards and better locked/secured entries IMO.

Then why is this problem more prevalent in America? I know this sounds like baiting, it isn't. Surely gun laws come into it, even if they aren't the root cause (they aren't IMHO).

I can't say for sure but I suspect the problem in the US stems from a number of factors not at all related to gun laws. Just a short list (for overall gun violence):

1) The way our prison system works. It makes people worse. It makes them better criminals. It removes much of their opportunity to get better (try getting a decent job as a felon). It creates desperation. 2) the way we treat mental illness. By that I mean it is demonized and ignored. Does health insurance even cover mental health exams or treatments? Probably not basic coverage 3) Disparity of wealth. In the town I live in there are people living in absolute poverty and people driving around in lamborghinis and million dollar churches. The cost of that car could feed 50 people for a year.

In thiscase there is no telling what the root cause was yet. I suspect a case of someone just losing it.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#86

Post by [deleted] »

mynameishere wrote: post #52
bstewartny wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gun control cant and wont solve these problems. These are societal problems. Anyone insane and evil enough to kill children would get guns on the black market or use some other weapon such as a bomb. Schools need to able to have armed guards and better locked/secured entries IMO.

The kind of guards who are actually capable of armed defense cost 200K/year and work for blackwater. As for gun control, it's really not possible as you suggest. There are almost 300 million guns in the country. I wouldn't want to be the guy rounding them up.

[deleted]

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#87

Post by msutherl »

washedup wrote: post #3

A father of one of the children's... how does our society produce individuals like this? I know there are probably dozens of answers... edit: just to be clear, I am not a father of one of the children. I was told the shooter was a father of one of the children at the school. Not sure if that is correct.

In addition to the problem of wide-spread untreated mental illness, many public schools are much like prisons for kids who have trouble adapting to social norms, both in that they do not grant basic human rights and that inter-student relations are barbaric. I don't know whether the shooter was a student or not, but based on my experience, it is not difficult for me to imagine somebody with less self control acting out in a violent manner.

Sorry for your loss.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#88

Post by Spooky23 »

DannoHung wrote: post #34
TallGuyShort wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say the same thing when people in oppressive regimes are silenced with no recourse because the government has no reason to fear it's own citizens. Sigh. I did not downvote your post, but frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are.

The weapons needed to resist a regime are not weapons we allow people to generally have in America at any rate. If we really believed in the 2nd Amendment, people would be allowed to own serious weapons of war but not be allowed to own concealable personal firearms.

From a legal POV, that's true in many places.

Getting legal access to high-performance rifles similar to military weapons is pretty trivial. Easily concealable weapons like pistols usually are more difficult to get a hold of legally.

The legal environment doesn't always translate into reality. I live in a small upstate NY city where we unfortunately have lots of shootings, mostly between poor high school kids. The local drug gangs make "community guns" available in public places like parks.

I would never want to own one, but for someone like me to own a handgun for target practice, there's an onerous process. I'd be required to get training, get background checked and go through a permit application process. After that's done, it's up to a county court judge's discretion, and in this county, the answer is usually "No."

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#89

Post by sukuriant »

nollidge wrote: post #68
grkballer44 wrote: post #39

Within a couple years this exact scenario will play out. A gunmen will talk in a crowded place loaded to the gills. Assault rifles, bullet proof vest, explosives hid around the building. He will pull out his gun and kill the poor unsuspecting first soul. After that initial shot someone with a concealed weapons permit is going to blow his brains out cutting his rampage short ( I truly hope the person who plays the her…

Right, because everybody with a concealed weapons permit is James Bond with perfect aim and cool nerves. Reality is a little bit messier than your fantasies.

The point was that "he with the gun holds the power" in those situations. And I'm sure the person with the gun feels like that. Make the odds of him having his tables turned on him by respectable law abiding citizens, and suddenly he'll be more afraid to do harm.

Ideally.

As a side note, she shouldn't shoot for the head anyway, especially if the bullet is going to go propelling out of the man. That's a great way to have unintended collateral damage.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#90

Post by [deleted] »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #72
untog wrote: post #4

I can't wait until the part where we all don't talk about gun control and carry on as usual. Sigh. EDIT: I see my post is being downvoted. I know that it may come across as insensitive to immediately leap to the gun control debate, but frankly I'm more angry than upset by this news. How many times does it have to happen? We have a good 48 hours of emotional outpouring and then everyone forgets it ever happened.

This has nothing to do with gun control. Guns exist, that can't be stopped any more than preventing alcohol from existing (prohibition), and some bad guys will always have access to guns. Or knives, or diesel fuel, or explosives. Was the Oklahoma-city bombing a wake-up call for "explosives control"? Was the 2009 Chengdu bus-fire ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Chengdu_bus_fire ) a wake-up call for diesel control?…

[deleted]
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