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No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

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Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#141

Post by s1artibartfast »

Theodores wrote: post #87
swiftcoder wrote: post #46

I wonder how much increasing fidelity requirements are the main culprit here? Myst was made by a team of about 7 people (only 4 of them full-time), in just about 2 years, and cost under a million (adjusted for inflation). Riven had a team twice the size, took twice as long, and cost 10-15x as much. Apart from Exile, which was handed to a more experienced developer who got it done faster and cheaper, the remaining seq…

They sold six million copies and made a big profit from Myst, which they presumably invested in the company, to make the next game, with the profits from that (and the diminishing returns from Myst) topping up their coffers. At some stage of the journey they took so much money out of the company that they could not fund development without taking on loans, albeit as advances from publishers. Why does every business h…

Is this a genuine question? I could try to explain more, but debt allows you to have your cake and eat it too.

I could save for 40 years for a house, or buy one today with debt today. In the latter case, I get to enjoy it now and save money on rent.

Basically the whole world works this way. You could save and then spend, or spend then repay.

In a lot of context, you make or save more by spending sooner than the cost of interest.

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#142

Post by OroPla »

DicIfTEx wrote: post #56
rdbl27 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that these same people can't tell whether it was authored by a human or an AI without a seperate disclosure is strong evidence that human authorship as such is not what they value at all.

Imagine I sell you something and you pay me in cash. The notes look authentic, but I later discover that they are conterfeits. It would be absurd to claim that your successful passing-off deception demonstrates that I don't value money at all.

If you find a counterfeit bill, you experience a loss. Imagine if instead of a counterfeit bill you got a counterfeit movie. The quality is exactly like the real deal, but it's an illegal copy. You find out after the fact. Does this affect your enjoyment of the movie? You've been bamboozled either way, but in one scenario you lose out and in another scenario the people selling the movie lose out.

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#143

Post by swiftcoder »

Theodores wrote: post #87
swiftcoder wrote: post #46

I wonder how much increasing fidelity requirements are the main culprit here? Myst was made by a team of about 7 people (only 4 of them full-time), in just about 2 years, and cost under a million (adjusted for inflation). Riven had a team twice the size, took twice as long, and cost 10-15x as much. Apart from Exile, which was handed to a more experienced developer who got it done faster and cheaper, the remaining seq…

They sold six million copies and made a big profit from Myst, which they presumably invested in the company, to make the next game, with the profits from that (and the diminishing returns from Myst) topping up their coffers. At some stage of the journey they took so much money out of the company that they could not fund development without taking on loans, albeit as advances from publishers. Why does every business h…

I think the answer is always scope creep. You hit it big on a game, your ambition grows, the next game costs an order of magnitude more… eventually you either run out of money, or you build Star Citizen

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#144

Post by swiftcoder »

teamonkey wrote: post #140
rufasterisco wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if English has a word for when you are half confused and half amused, but that is how I feel. From this same article, here is the co-head of the studio that wanted to produce Myst. > “I don't think people realize the true cost of developing games,” Anderson says, having used Kickstarter to partially fund two of Cyan’s past titles. “A million dollars seems like a ton of money, but it doesn't even come clo…

Apples to oranges, I think. Blue Prince was self-funded and solo developed for much of its long development time. Publisher funding was sought to polish and market the game. The developers in the article are taking about seeking upfront publisher funding for a small studio to develop the game with a much shorter time horizon. The publisher would likely need to invest much more, but would take a much greater percentag…

Indeed. Folks with a trust fund/juicy investment account/etc have always been able to self-fund their solo gamedev career. It’s a whole other process to take a pitch deck to a publisher and get funded in the strength of your reputation alone

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#145

Post by CamperBob2 »

BigTTYGothGF wrote: post #135
CamperBob2 wrote: post #67

What are you talking about? I can make a Myst-class game by next weekend, for practically no money. The audience won't like it because they have beef with the tools I'd choose to use, but that's a them problem, not a me problem. Maybe I'm God's gift to game design but I just suck at art. They'll never know, I guess.

> I can make a Myst-class game by next weekend, for practically no money. I don't believe you can.

Well, not for free. :-P

Still, a weekend-long indy game jam in which the contestants are expected to use AI, rather than being forbidden to use it, would be pretty interesting to see.

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#146

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

flohofwoe wrote: post #36
freeCandy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to see games differently from other software. Treat games as consumables, that are meant to be finished. Once a player finishes a game, the desire to replay it soon after is going to be pretty low, no matter how good the experience was. However, players will desire more of that similar experience. Ask anybody who just finished a good game and they'll tell you how finishing it left a void, and that they're lo…

> Once a player finishes a game, the desire to replay it soon after is going to be pretty low, no matter how good the experience was. I think this has changed a lot since the early 2000s. There are now plenty of "forever games" where players spend hundreds or thousands of hours in, especially MMOs and free-to-play games. And even traditional AAA franchises like CoD or Battlefield are essentially just releasing new ep…

Quake came out in 1996, Diablo in 1997, Starcraft in 1998. Sure the adrenaline juicing is more sophisticated now, but there were already multiplayer games which could hook one for life.

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#147

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

somenameforme wrote: post #77
staplers wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have yet to bump into a story where an actually great game goes undiscovered. By the very nature of it, you wouldn't...

But I think this also goes the other way as well. Even the most reclusive dev hermit can get some people to try out their game, and people love a hidden gem, and love talking about it. It makes it quite impractical for a genuinely great game to remain just undiscovered.

During peak Covid, Vampire Survivors blew up as the hot game. It is a pedestrian dual stick shooter. There are hundreds of examples which do the same thing, possibly better.

Getting a hit game requires decent fundamentals and a heap of luck.

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#148

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

mh- wrote: post #101
rufasterisco wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if English has a word for when you are half confused and half amused, but that is how I feel. From this same article, here is the co-head of the studio that wanted to produce Myst. > “I don't think people realize the true cost of developing games,” Anderson says, having used Kickstarter to partially fund two of Cyan’s past titles. “A million dollars seems like a ton of money, but it doesn't even come clo…

> I don't know if English has a word for when you are half confused and half amused I think bemused is the closest I can think of.

I only think of bemused as "confused".

Maybe incredulous at a stretch?

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#149

Post by mh- »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #148
mh- wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know if English has a word for when you are half confused and half amused I think bemused is the closest I can think of.

I only think of bemused as "confused". Maybe incredulous at a stretch?

I was iffy on it as well, so looked it up before suggesting it. M-W has it as the 3rd definition, for example. It's hit or miss whether that usage is in a given dictionary, it seems.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bemused

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#150

Post by Ariarule »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #67

What are you talking about? I can make a Myst-class game by next weekend, for practically no money. The audience won't like it because they have beef with the tools I'd choose to use, but that's a them problem, not a me problem. Maybe I'm God's gift to game design but I just suck at art. They'll never know, I guess.

Can you name three reasonable-quality games out there like this that were definitely made in such a way? It costs only $100 to publish a game on Steam, recoupable if you meet a fairly low revenue threshold. You can publish elsewhere with no money up front (e.g. Itch). If this were actually true, and even if 90% of players would just pass based on the AI disclosure (doubtful, and also doubtful that _all_ games made this way would actually disclose it), you'd expect there to be lots of Myst quality games out there; hundred to thousands already, at least a handful of which should _already_ be successful.

Not entirely a rhetorical question. I've found any images need serious review and touch-up at a minimum and usually multiple rounds of revision. The topology on any generated 3D models is generally atrocious. TTS is not tuned for voice acting to an extent it's absolutely no good for that purpose as far I can tell, and that would be a cornerstone of any serious modern "Myst-class" adventure game. I can't comment on music and SFX in particular and have heard secondhand that current models are "all right", but imagine it's probably the same situation: no care taken, you get uselessly mid results. If it's really that easy and that cheap, I'd like to see it.

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