“Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers • Hacker News Board

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#111

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 08, 2026, 7:10 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #90

tikhonj wrote: post #62

Everybody saying "coding was never the hard part" is really telling on themselves. Coding was never "hard" because most organizations were absolutely unwilling to take on any technical work that was hard. That tells us about business strategy and culture rather than anything about the fundamentals of programming or technical work. The real conclusion is that programming is such a high-leverage activity that even tech…

It is hardly any different from reviewing or debugging the code quality of most offshore deliveries.

[deleted]

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#112

Post by ethin » Sat, Aug 08, 2026, 7:12 PM UTC

a2ff6eeb0 wrote: post #40

ethin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting take. Can you link us to your (correct, maybe even formally correct) AI-generated software? Given how general this post is, I assume you wouldn't mind if I extend this to, Idk, aviation or spaceflight, so mind linking to any GH repos you have where you've written code to work in environments like that? I ask because all you said was "making software" and didn't say what kind of "software" we're talking ab…

Since you apparently work on this kind of software, here's a challenge for you: take the last several bugs that were reported and paste them into Fable, pointing it at your code. How long does it take? Does it find the issue? In more or less time than the engineers took? Ask it to review your code for design and cohesiveness issues. How does it do?

Sorry, but we aren't talking about me here. You were the one who made the claim that AI pretty much makes making software trivial nowadays. Specifically, you wrote:

> Making software is no longer very hard. It's becoming a few steps up from burger flipping. Maybe somewhere around line chef.

You did acknowledge that "some" skill was required:

> There's still some skill involved, but the skill is mostly in manual testing, and accurately phrasing what went wrong. The AI is better at debugging than people are, and the code isn't great, but perfectly adequate for pretty much everything. And it's even fine at system design these days.

All I asked was for you to back this up, since the burden of proof is on you to prove your claim, not on me to prove it for you.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#113

Post by dofm » Sat, Aug 08, 2026, 7:14 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #51

hakunin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with those customers. That's like saying "building a car is not hard, building a real car that you can use and that passes regulation is". IOW, writing code is hard in every reasonable context.

How many programmers operate under that kind of regulatory and operational constraint regime? I think most don’t. (In interesting ways this is programming’s greatest boon and curse: if we treated it more like building bridges or cars, the world would be a very different place.)

Any coder with experience or ability imagines a world where software architects are regulated the way real architects are, and acts accordingly.

I mean, this was drilled into me at uni — that software was not likely to escape regulation forever and that you can't know with certainty how all the code you're writing will be used when you're not observing the use.

For example, under what constraint regime should the calculator app bundled with an OS be written? It's just a little bundled toy app. Until someone under pressure uses it to calculate a medicine dose, expecting it to be a calculator like it says.

Perhaps this gives away my age more than anything else.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#114

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Sat, Aug 08, 2026, 7:14 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #88

pdhborges wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Touch billing, touch medical data, be at a B2B company that needs to catch all the ISOs to have a chance to land bigger contracts. I don't think it's uncommon.

It might be an unpopular option, but I think the regulatory regimes that control medical and financial privacy as they interact with software are significantly lighter touch than e.g. the regimes that control material quality for bridges and tunnels, much less airplanes.

Not really. In those safety-critical areas, the code really is no different. What is significantly different is the surrounding process.

I had to make some software changes to an old medical device this year. The overwhelming majority of the effort was understanding what the customer wanted and giving them feedback into how that would change the existing system and the risks associated. Then, creating a plan to follow the necessary standard (IEC62304) and creating the associated documentation and getting it reviewed and approved.

The actual code that changed was probably only around 100 LOC but the project took several months. Heck, the code was simple enough that an intern could have done it.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#115

Post by omiliyomami » Sat, Aug 08, 2026, 7:15 PM UTC

bob1029 wrote: post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

How can I downvote a comment

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#116

Post by varjag » Sat, Aug 08, 2026, 7:16 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #91

varjag wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, coding was still the hard bit. Every failing programmer would jump into architects or prod management but not the opposite way.

Usually you don't have an option other than leaving, most organisations don't let seniors keep coding and nothing else. Either move up the ladder or leave.

Non-coding architects were typically a by-track rather than superiors to ICs. Though I imagine some of them could think they were. Product managers also often don't have proper reports in the sense line managers would.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#117

Post by bdangubic » Sat, Aug 08, 2026, 7:16 PM UTC

turtlebits wrote: post #92

bdangubic wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After 30+ years in the industry the absolute best programmers I know never spoke to any customers, like ever. so bullshit comment all around. I’ve been coding for 30+, have obscene salary and do not wear any “additional hats” or talk to any “customers.”

Understanding requirements means talking to customers. A customer can be anyone, even other devs that consume your code/product.

“understanding requirements” is as much “wearing other hats” as having hands is “wearing other hats” for a carpenter.

coding is always the hard part, always. whenever I was on any project and we had more work than resource we never hired “people to wear other hats” - we hired people to write code, that’s it. thats the fucking job.

you ever see a leet-code-for-understanding-requirements? yea, me either…

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#118

Post by ben_w » Sat, Aug 08, 2026, 7:18 PM UTC

bob1029 wrote: post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

> Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with those customers.

  Invoice: $1000
  One bolt tightened: $1
  Knowing which bolt to tighten: $999

> The gigantic salaries paid to the most prolific employees is not due to their ability to write code. It is due to their ability to interrogate the shit out of the customer until they finally reveal the true requirements.

Bit of both probably. I've seen really awful code in my time, so would say "actually coding well" is indeed one of the hard parts.

But knowing what the real problem to be solved is, is indeed important. (Isn't that what sales is? Working with the customer to tease out the real thing they need solving?)

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#119

Post by makerdiety » Sat, Aug 08, 2026, 7:18 PM UTC

Then let the code monkeys be insulted then.

Good riddance to the overpaid coders.

And hello cheap replacements!

The bottom line has improved. And that's good for business. Which was the only thing that mattered. Regardless of any reactionary sentimentalism.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#120

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Sat, Aug 08, 2026, 7:18 PM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #93

hakunin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with those customers. That's like saying "building a car is not hard, building a real car that you can use and that passes regulation is". IOW, writing code is hard in every reasonable context.

Your analogy breaks down because code is not heavily regulated as cars are. This is worth saying precisely because of this difference - people see huge amounts of bad code generated by LLMs and think it is equivalent to carefully written code because the results look similar at first glance and they don’t bother to read it.

The code in cars is, by definition.