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“Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

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Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#61
post #45

"Code was never the hard part" misses the point but so does this blog post. This blog post from 2011 is worth reading and really cuts into the middle of the dreads-of-programmer. https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-pr... Don’t call yourself a programmer: “Programmer” sounds like “anomalously high-cost peon who types some mumbo-jumbo into some other mumbo-jumbo.” If you call yourself a programmer…

> There’s nothing wrong with this, by the way. You’re in the business of unemploying people.

Occasionally I see a tech person in SV upset about AI automating away jobs. My dude, your whole job is to automate away jobs.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#62
Everybody saying "coding was never the hard part" is really telling on themselves. Coding was never "hard" because most organizations were absolutely unwilling to take on any technical work that was hard. That tells us about business strategy and culture rather than anything about the fundamentals of programming or technical work.

The real conclusion is that programming is such a high-leverage activity that even technically trivial, low-quality programming is immensely valuable economically. That's not going anywhere, but maybe LLMs are going to make it all that much cheaper. (Which is mostly great! But I really don't look forward to the painful debugging and maintenance that reams of shit code will push down on programmers.)

But also, there still is a ton of programming that is fundamentally difficult. That's not going anywhere either. And LLMs are useful there too, but they're currently nowhere near replacing the expertise needed to do novel and non-trivial technical work.

In an ideal world, making mediocre code cheaper should leave more room for taking on harder technical challenges. In reality, this has always been dictated far more by non-technical factors—culture, leadership, trust, risk tolerance...—than by anything intrinsic to programming. But, at least for now, we can use the LLM hype to motivate the kind of deeper technical work that always made sense but was too uncertain or too open-ended or too long-term for non-technical leadership.

And we should also drop the bullshit "code was never the hard part" framing.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#63
I feel like you're getting hung up in semantics such that your essay doesn't say the obvious: coding is "easy" relative to confidently knowing how and what to do next at every stage.

The comparison does not imply that coding is an easy thing to do, just that it's easier than being really, really good at the bigger picture.

What Carmack did wasn't hard because writing C is hard.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#64
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy on the cocaine. There are no credible AI code bases on GitHub.

nah. my company (not a tech company)'s stack is ai generated and it has created credible value.

It seems so obvious that a non-tech company can benefit hugely from AI for their bespoke use case, especially if no one in the company knew how to write code pre-AI. But it's also easy to put some planks down across a stream and call it a bridge, that doesn't mean it's built well, going to last, or that there's no longer a need for structural engineers and architects.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Writing code is not hard. Writing code has a minimum IQ requirement; a significant fraction of the population will essentially never be able to code by themselves. That labor supply limitation is what's kept programmer salaries relatively high.

Writing code doesn't have a notably higher (if at all higher, vs lower!) IQ requirement compared to some of the basic components of EE or MechE work. Programmer salaries have been driven up by the ability to write-once-sell-globally and the dramatic profit margin difference between that and, say, producing chips where there's a much higher fixed cost due to the need for more real material, tooling, etc. Many of those…

>Writing code doesn't have a notably higher (if at all higher, vs lower!) IQ requirement compared to some of the basic components of EE

Average IQ of Electrical Engineers: 121

https://www.iqcareerlab.com/tools/iq-for-profession/electric...

...which is the top 10% of the population.

https://www.desperateminds.com/blog/iq-120.html

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#66
post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

> Either directly or worse.

Wow, some "the killer is calling from inside the house" vibes right there. But I totally agree that the game of telephone has always been _an_ issue - maybe not _the_ issue but certainly a big one.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#67
Is it just me, or is this article arguing against a straw-man?

Isn't the real argument that "writing code is not the hard part"? As in, reading and understanding is the hard part. Figuring out what and how to change is the hard part.

Writing is the last 1% that happens after you have already finished the 99% of talking to people, figuring out what needs to be built, building up context about the codebase and surrounding infrastructure in your heard, planning the actual changes.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#68
post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

> The gigantic salaries paid to the most prolific employees is not due to their ability to write code. It is due to their ability to interrogate the shit out of the customer until they finally reveal the true requirements. That doesn’t describe any devs I know, especially not in the old days. Interrogating customers and bringing back requirements was the job of management (who got big salaries, too.)

Agree. What a strange perspective. Engineering is what is hard, and that includes coding and non-coding activities but doesn’t require customer interrogation.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#69
post #45

"Code was never the hard part" misses the point but so does this blog post. This blog post from 2011 is worth reading and really cuts into the middle of the dreads-of-programmer. https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-pr... Don’t call yourself a programmer: “Programmer” sounds like “anomalously high-cost peon who types some mumbo-jumbo into some other mumbo-jumbo.” If you call yourself a programmer…

Good post!

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#70
post #19

Nope, only those without a degree that cannot do anything else, e.g. the bricklayers on a building. Real engineering has always been about talking with the multiple parties, organising architecture meetings, taking down requirements, if no infra team available setup the whole CI/CD pipeline, and so on. Programming could be done in whatever language, or low code/no code tool, solved the business problem. Now what will…

It's not even about the degree. Fresh computer science graduates already know how to code but can't do the senior developer stuff. https://www.nair.sh/guides-and-opinions/communicating-your-e...

That depends on the quality of the degree. I was well served on my Software Engineering degree, coupled with the trader school in computing I went during high school.

Then naturally seniority teaches office politics, and what to actually invest time on.

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