Nope, only those without a degree that cannot do anything else, e.g. the bricklayers on a building. Real engineering has always been about talking with the multiple parties, organising architecture meetings, taking down requirements, if no infra team available setup the whole CI/CD pipeline, and so on. Programming could be done in whatever language, or low code/no code tool, solved the business problem. Now what will…
“Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
31–40 of 353 posts
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#32Nope, only those without a degree that cannot do anything else, e.g. the bricklayers on a building. Real engineering has always been about talking with the multiple parties, organising architecture meetings, taking down requirements, if no infra team available setup the whole CI/CD pipeline, and so on. Programming could be done in whatever language, or low code/no code tool, solved the business problem. Now what will…
https://www.nair.sh/guides-and-opinions/communicating-your-e...
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#33>If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)?
There is more to those roles than just coding. In fact the more expensive "programmers" often do not code themselves.
>Why was there so much stress, overwork and burnout even before AI started churning out 5000-line PRs?
Something being time consuming is different from something being hard. There are simple factory jobs that also demand overworking.
>Why did companies seek 10x ninja rockstar coders and subject them to leetcode interviews—surely, a junior fresh out of college could churn out something if it's so easy?
Building software takes time and since velocity is important companies wanted people who could increase velocity.
>If coding is easy, why do we have doorstoppers like Clean Code and The Pragmatic Programmer? Is The Art of Computer Programming a light summer read? Is SICP a coffee-table book? Why do we have bootcamps or even whole college degrees dedicated to it?
So authors can make money? Programming is learned by a ton of kids on their own there is no need for boot camps or college degrees just for the benefit of being able to program.
If coding is easy, was Carmack just at the right place at the right time? Why do we consider Fabrice Bellard a genius?
The earlier you are to a field the easier it is to have your impact recorded. In markets with first movie advantage being earlier also helps a lot. A lot of people were able to program so what made them earlier than others was not just being able to program.
>If coding is easy, why are people angry at AI (or anyone else) copying their code? Why do they act like they've poured their sweat, soul, and copious amounts of time into something so trivial?
Again something being time consuming doesn't mean it was hard.
>If coding is easy, why do many now feel like their identity and professional purpose are being stripped away from them?
When you spend a big percentage of your life doing something it becomes part of your identity regardless of difficulty.
>If coding is easy, why is software so damn buggy?
Because making bug free software takes a lot of time and resources. Those resources have a higher return on investment elsewhere.
>If deciding what to build is the hard part, why do so many product managers seem clueless? Why aren't there rigorous 10-step interviews for them? Why aren't they getting paid more than the developers?
People are clueless because it is hard. Pay is not based off of difficulty.
>If deciding what to build is the hard part, why aren't market researchers, usability experts and—hell, customer success—considered rockstars in a software company? If “understanding the customer” is harder, why are business analysts looked down on as pencil pushers?
Because the company finds it cheaper to outsource? A ton of companies have their employees setting up and using telemetry to understand their customers so it's not a one dimensional thing.
>If implementation is easy and finding demand is harder, why are programmers upset when the salespeople promise a new feature to a customer to close the sale? They've found a genuine demand, something people will pay for!
Programming takes time and resources. These may have a higher return on investment elsewhere than this niche feature. It may make maintaining the entire product take more resources to support a niche feature.
>If coding is easy, why doesn't everyone just build ten variations of a thing and see which pans out?
Again building entire products takes a lot of resources. And 10x the cost of building every product is not going to be competitive in the market.
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#34I agree, the whole 'developers don't code' AI defense was pretty ridiculous. I also concur that development is going to get a lot harder. Anyone that has successfully used AI coding tools knows that you can get massive productivity increases but now I have to figure out how to get a bunch of hyper active child like coding entities with memory deficiencies to build stuff without going off the rail and introducing mass…
No one seems to mind the quality drop though. The buyers of this stuff could never discern.
... as long as the buyers could never discern
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#35> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…
Writing code has a minimum IQ requirement; a significant fraction of the population will essentially never be able to code by themselves. That labor supply limitation is what's kept programmer salaries relatively high.
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#36Making software is no longer very hard. It's becoming a few steps up from burger flipping. Maybe somewhere around line chef. There's still some skill involved, but the skill is mostly in manual testing, and accurately phrasing what went wrong. The AI is better at debugging than people are, and the code isn't great, but perfectly adequate for pretty much everything. And it's even fine at system design these days. It's…
Can you link us to your git repo(s) and/or other artifacts that demonstrate this take? I and many other here I think won't agree, and we mostly love being taught.
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#37> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…
However, where we agree, is that there is more to engineering than writing code. It's problem solving. Even if the product team, the c-suite, the board, the investors, et al, are all in on a product that they believe customers want, doesn't mean the real problem of bringing that idea to life at scale has been solved.
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#38Code is the hard part if you are John Carmack or in a similar position where you have to squeeze every drop of performance from a hardware. That is the minority of programmers.
Now there is hard-er coding. Novel algorithms, performance sensitive stuff, and so on.
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#39> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#40Making software is no longer very hard. It's becoming a few steps up from burger flipping. Maybe somewhere around line chef. There's still some skill involved, but the skill is mostly in manual testing, and accurately phrasing what went wrong. The AI is better at debugging than people are, and the code isn't great, but perfectly adequate for pretty much everything. And it's even fine at system design these days. It's…
Interesting take. Can you link us to your (correct, maybe even formally correct) AI-generated software? Given how general this post is, I assume you wouldn't mind if I extend this to, Idk, aviation or spaceflight, so mind linking to any GH repos you have where you've written code to work in environments like that? I ask because all you said was "making software" and didn't say what kind of "software" we're talking ab…
How long does it take? Does it find the issue? In more or less time than the engineers took?
Ask it to review your code for design and cohesiveness issues. How does it do?