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New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

nytimes.com

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Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#161

Post by DennisP »

fallingbananna wrote: post #119
DGAP wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewables require storage because they are bursty - sun goes down, wind stops blowing. This is more expensive than just burning as much nat gas as you need.

Presumably, the data center usage could also be bursty, right? More people will be using AI during the (work)day, than at midnight. Then they could do half solar, half gas. Also "more expensive" when it comes to solar isn't meaningful until you also consider timeframe. Solar panels pay themselves off in a few years, and after that they basically generate "free" electricity. Gas never becomes cheaper or free, every ye…

AWS is heavily used worldwide, not just in the US. The same goes for the big AI companies.

Timeframe is accounted for if you look at levelized cost per kWh. The levelized cost of natural gas is 5 to 11 cents/kWh. In the sunniest spots, the levelized cost of solar with enough battery storage to provide 24/7 power is about the same, if you want >90% reliability. The usual four hours of storage is only enough to account for the "duck curve" during the day.

https://www.pv-tech.org/solar-pv-and-storage-cost-declines-d...

https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/solar-electricity-e...

Solar and batteries keep getting cheaper so hopefully they will be clear winners soon, at least in sunny areas.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#162

Post by ipaddr »

mschuster91 wrote: post #117
xyzelement wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Will my kids be an ethnic minority in their own country in the next generation I didn’t expect having to read great replacement bullshit on Hacker News. JFC do some napkin math, it’s utter nonsense.

[flagged]

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#163

Post by LogicFailsMe »

vineyardmike wrote: post #9

Those in power seem to think that a compute advantage is necessary to maintain economic advantage. Despite this, the voters universally hate data centers, so much so that both NY and TX have data center construction moratoriums. Despite this, those in power refuse any environmentally aware energy policy nor water policy. Despite this, companies have been trying to be environmentally aware for either moral or marketin…

Given local grassroots opposition, the data centers are starting to move into less regulated countries where I would gather building them raises the local standard of living, but presents the new challenge of finding people qualified to run them.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#164

Post by andrepd »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #116
lee_ars wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas specifically has heavily politicized and demonized wind power, in spite of having massive successes with it prior to 2016 and being a leading producer of it. Solar isn't as bad, but is still seen as "leftist." The political landscape in TX is vastly more friendly to natural gas. In other words, they are using gas turbines because the politicians are stupid.

I often wonder why conservatives have such a problem with renewable energy. I can certainly believe that oil and gas pay better bribes, and that this incentivises a certain kind of politician who seem to be over-represented among conservatives in the US. But that doesn't explain the widespread dislike among the conservative end of the general population. Is it just groupthink or Overton Window -nudging using social m…

One would think that self-proclaimed "conservatives" would like to conserve the natural world... Long gone are the days of Teddy Roosevelt that's for sure.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#165

Post by parineum »

embedding-shape wrote: post #138
parineum wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you getting the information that it's unauthorized (or needs to be authorized)?

> Where are you getting the information that it's unauthorized (or needs to be authorized)? https://www.selc.org/press-release/naacp-asks-court-for-emer... and the previous link I referenced. One would think if there is even a suspicion (even if it hasn't been ruled in court yet) about large-scale harmful toxic emissions, the police and relevant authorities would at least quickly do some samples or what not, to figur…

The NAACP claims don't amount to facts.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#166

Post by latexr »

andsoitis wrote: post #154
stevesimmons wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a European, current foreign policy is not "reducing trust in America as a reliable and stable partner". It has already reduced trust to rock bottom. It's hard to see how much worse it could get, short of outright invasion or allying with Russia. Just this week, amongst other news: * America's useless adventures in Iran have used up so many Patriot missiles there aren't any left to defend Kyiv against Russ…

> It's hard to see how much worse it could get, short of outright invasion or allying with Russia. Why would the US ally with Russia, who is a Chinese and Iranian ally? That's just uncritical thinking. The United States is the single largest bilateral provider of direct military equipment, intelligence, and defense funding to Ukraine (a European country) against Russia.

> Why would the US ally with Russia, who is a Chinese and Iranian ally?

I don’t think the comment above you is suggesting that is a possibility, but rather saying “things are so bad that the only imaginable way to get worse would be ”. In other words, it seems to be hyperbole.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#167

Post by mrpopo »

Divest all your stocks from all this AI data-center race bullshit, invest into renewable projects. Worst case, the orange buffoon will bail you out with taxpayer money to prevent the US grid from being too clean or something. Only money talks in the US.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#168

Post by [deleted] »

wegwerper wrote: post #94
vineyardmike wrote: post #9

Those in power seem to think that a compute advantage is necessary to maintain economic advantage. Despite this, the voters universally hate data centers, so much so that both NY and TX have data center construction moratoriums. Despite this, those in power refuse any environmentally aware energy policy nor water policy. Despite this, companies have been trying to be environmentally aware for either moral or marketin…

A country is but the sum of its people - and this american people have gotten what they voted for. Nice opportunity for the rest of the world, though.

[deleted]

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#169

Post by m463 »

inigyou wrote: post #70
firesteelrain wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also made solar inverters illegal last week. That’s overstating it. A couple clarifications. It banned foreign (edit) made equipment because it’s known for cybersecurity issues. It was the FCC that restricted new foreign-made connected inverters over grid cybersecurity concerns. [1] 1. https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-adds-foreign-produced-power... > This week, the US government paid a wind farm company $1.2 bil…

It banned all foreign made solar inverters i.e. all solar inverters.

"connected power inverters produced in foreign countries"

I think home devices that phone somebody-elses-home are a cancer anyway.

[1] https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-423682A1.pdf

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#170

Post by xyzelement »

mschuster91 wrote: post #117
xyzelement wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Will my kids be an ethnic minority in their own country in the next generation I didn’t expect having to read great replacement bullshit on Hacker News. JFC do some napkin math, it’s utter nonsense.

I was going to argue but seemingly the math does work out
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