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Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

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Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#341

Post by inigyou »

xxs wrote: post #189
mcdow wrote: post #48

y’all seem to be missing the fact that Java is a mature product. it has left the “move fast and break things” era of it’s development. code is a liability, and they likely have more to lose than gain by allowing AI contribution.

>it has left the “move fast and break things java never had that phase. If anything it had a full binary class (not even source, e.g. long and int are not compatible on binary level) compatibility. Generally you can take an application from '98 and run it nowadays. It's only recent changes (jigsaw in java9 mostly) that were made them to drop some of that part.

> (not even source, e.g. long and int are not compatible on binary level)

What did you mean by this?

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#342

Post by inigyou »

ActorNightly wrote: post #138
mcdow wrote: post #48

y’all seem to be missing the fact that Java is a mature product. it has left the “move fast and break things” era of it’s development. code is a liability, and they likely have more to lose than gain by allowing AI contribution.

Oracle Java is also basically effectively in KTLO mode. The biggest use of Java currently is Android, and Google is on a path to migrate to Fuchsia eventually. The second biggest use is Apache Spark/Kafka, but with LLMs now, you can pretty much re implement all of that functionality in pure C. They just want a legal angle, since this is how they make most of their money.

Google's been alleging to try to replace Android with Fuchsia for more than half of Android's existence. It's not happen. I remind myself that Google has almost never created a successful product.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#343

Post by rwmj »

saghm wrote: post #214
rwmj wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intentional rather than self-inflicted.

Not sure how common this understanding of the terms is, but to me, those terms don't seem conflicting.

One is that Sun/Oracle made an honest mistake with the license (self-inflicted). The other is that they regretted that Java was ever open source and so made the license and other processes around Java as annoying as possible while still being technically open source.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#344

Post by inigyou »

StatsAreFun wrote: post #233

From the page https://openjdk.org/legal/ai - "6 Is it okay to continue using the spell-checking, grammar-checking, auto-completion, and refactoring features in my editor or IDE? Yes, so long as they are not based on large language models or similar deep-learning systems."

Completely delusional they are.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#345

Post by Paradigma11 »

hunterpayne wrote: post #257
CursedSilicon wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes. The media. Famously the voice of the proletariat and the oppressed Walter Lippmann is spinning in his grave

For reference, Walter Lippmann is the guy from the NYT who covered up the Holodomor in Ukraine (1930s) in the west as well as Stalin's gulags and purges. I wouldn't call him the voice of the proletariat in any way. He was the voice of the Stalinist in the west and the term tankie was invented for him and people like him.

For veracity, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Duranty was that guy.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#346

Post by inigyou »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #51

How does all this AI generated code blocking gappen? Does a human decide that or an AI is tasked with sequencing that PR's DNA to ascertain its possible inhuman origins? What if someone generates code with AI and then goes into the IDE and then bathes it, dresses it (including adding comments) etc, in a way a human would? What then? No, here I am not exploring a way to fool the code DNA checking, but rather trying to…

They look at your code, and if they think it's AI, they say no.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#347

Post by jeroenhd »

ActorNightly wrote: post #138
mcdow wrote: post #48

y’all seem to be missing the fact that Java is a mature product. it has left the “move fast and break things” era of it’s development. code is a liability, and they likely have more to lose than gain by allowing AI contribution.

Oracle Java is also basically effectively in KTLO mode. The biggest use of Java currently is Android, and Google is on a path to migrate to Fuchsia eventually. The second biggest use is Apache Spark/Kafka, but with LLMs now, you can pretty much re implement all of that functionality in pure C. They just want a legal angle, since this is how they make most of their money.

Java is absolutely massive for a huge variety of applications, most of them servers and daemons. The most common user-facing Java implementations are probably Android and Minecraft, but behind the scenes it powers everything from blogs to logistics to networking equipment to SIM cards.

Oracle's own OpenJDK is free but they will only let consumers download Java 8 for free, that's why companies like Jetbrains ship JDKs with their products.

Google is in the middle of moving ChromeOS to Android, they're not replacing Android with Fuchsia any time soon.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#348

Post by inigyou »

mrkstu wrote: post #123
slopinthebag wrote: post #9

I would laugh for a week if the courts eventually found issues with using LLM content and forced companies to either publish their LLM generated code as public domain or they were forced to roll back their codebases to a pre-LLM state. Probably won’t happen but clearly Oracle sees a potential for legal issues with LLM output.

Thing is public domain can be used any way you want. The Libre style licenses are specifically engineered to make the source available to the users of the source, no such clause exists in using public domain.

Public domain things sometimes even have their copyright registered by someone else and then the original author gets sued. You don't want public domain.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#349

Post by ekianjo »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #315
kdheiwns wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're surprised. That's just how business/networking/capitalism works everywhere on earth and it's been like that since the dawn of civilization. And why would Congress stop is since they're all getting the same benefits and don't even hide it?

I guess I thought integrity was still at least considered an ideal to strive for in the West.

why do you think politicians want to become politicians? so that they can get the gravy too
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