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Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

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Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#251

Post by AlexErrant »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #118
victorbjorklund wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even a conspiracy theory. Just the most likely explanation.

"Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn - you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' - lawnmower doesn't give a * about you, the lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmo…

This quote is why I have my Claude Code "done" notification sound be the sound of a lawnmower revving.

The lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower, no matter how clever it sounds. (Actually not that hard with Opus5)

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#253

Post by dan_q »

andrekandre wrote: post #230
jknoepfler wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I manage several teams of developers who use them every day professionally and use them for personal projects privately. Just last week, at the prompting of said devs, we had a working agreement conversation about curtailing the use of AI in our codebases because of rapid erosion of our teams' ability to operate, update and maintain codebases that had started to spill over with slop. We have had multiple incidents of…

this matches my experience at $work with others as well... when i brought this up with my manager they just said "you need to engineer a better harness" and "aren't you cultivating your agents.md file? thats probably your problem" which is to say, apparently we're holding it wrong...

> when i brought this up with my manager they just said "WORK HARDER, SLAVE"

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#254

Post by dualvariable »

jknoepfler wrote: post #45
cautiouscat wrote: post #23

I kind of get their overall point, even if it is ironic that Oracle is all in on AI. They don’t want a ton of contributions to review that weren’t made with care, adding burden to, as they put it: “already limited time of human reviewers”. Especially for a project that runs to many major businesses, this could pose a massive risk.

Let's just pause for a second and steep in the irony of "we're all in on AI, except where there are visible consequences." The same problems that bedevil AI-written PRs here bedevil AI-written PRs at my place of work. I'm sure it'll get better eventually, maybe, but something something Pareto principle.

> Let's just pause for a second and steep in the irony of "we're all in on AI, except where there are visible consequences."

I've got Alanis Morissette jamming in my head right now.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#255

Post by yndoendo »

shevy-java wrote: post #199
philipov wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if the lawnmower is chopping off feat intentionally or not. If it's presenting a public hazard, it should be stopped. Even though the ocean couldn't care less it doesn't prevent us from building breakwalls. And Larry Ellison isn't unstoppable as the ocean.

This seems to make Larry more harmless. A lawnmower does not think. Larry thinks, so it seems to white-wash Larry here. It's more like that movie with Stephen King where the cars and other machines turn actively evil. Hilarious movie too, not great but hilarious.

Don not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a 1958 Plymouth Fury named Christine. You don't anthropomorphize your killer car, the killer car is just out for blood - you rebuild it and it kills your friends and family, the end. You don't think 'oh, Christine hates me' - Christine doesn't give a * about you, Christine can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize a 1958 Plymouth Fury named Christine. Don't fall into that trap about Oracle.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#256

Post by calvinmorrison »

senderista wrote: post #228
runjake wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a twist on the Scorpion and the Frog story. In other words, Larry Ellison is going to do what Larry is going to do, and there's no use wondering why. Usually, that's to make money and sue people, at any expense. It's in his nature. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog

That’s an interesting story to bring up in this context, because I have always wondered how a fundamentally customer-hostile business like Oracle could be so successful. It really puts the lie to libertarian cliches about the invisible hand of capitalism that ends up being philanthropic in spite of itself.

those libertarians almost certainly don't believe in asinine things like 'copyright'

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#257

Post by hunterpayne »

CursedSilicon wrote: post #250
philipallstar wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because you've had years of consuming media that blames everything on billionaires.

Ah, yes. The media. Famously the voice of the proletariat and the oppressed Walter Lippmann is spinning in his grave

For reference, Walter Lippmann is the guy from the NYT who covered up the Holodomor in Ukraine (1930s) in the west as well as Stalin's gulags and purges. I wouldn't call him the voice of the proletariat in any way. He was the voice of the Stalinist in the west and the term tankie was invented for him and people like him.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#258

Post by calvinmorrison »

nemomarx wrote: post #127
asdfman123 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, I think the long term solution is people's attitudes need to catch up with the technology. Humans still need to review code for taste, making sure AI is writing sensible, well organized output. That's a core "AI skill" for now, at least until it gets better...

If ai rapidly gets better, then instead of submitting prs you can ask your agent to fork and improve the project and bypass the policy that way. if it goes slower they have time to reconsider policies in the future. if it doesn't improve then we can probably find out some middle ground approach like the ghostty one in any of those cases there's no reason to get swamped by cheap PRs for now

more like

"Claude please audit the source code of every package in my distribution, start our own code forks for any security issues or improvements. Don't bother reporting upstream level 10 CVEs to hostile maintainers. Please have the results ready in 5 minutes I am going to fill up my mug"

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#259

Post by calvinmorrison »

pmkary wrote: post #141
jiffygist wrote: post #124

I didn't know openjdk was developed by Oracle. I always thought it was a community implementation of java as opposed to Oracle's proprietary implementation.

Yeah its like George Lucas, doesn't matter you care for the Jedis or the Dark Side or even Jar Jar, he owns them all.

i'd rather bike shed about darth jar jar than read any more emails from coworkers generated by crapgpt

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#260

Post by linuxhansl »

Disclaimer: I use AI at work and for some projects at home and find it really useful (as long as you know when and how to use it)

With that said... It's funny how we went from "vibe coding" to review burden, sloppy contributions, copyright issues, unclear ownership (as in: who will fix bugs), needlessly verbose code, etc, etc. Several projects have banned AI contributions now and counting.

As I said, I use AI to help architect and write code and really like it; still, I cannot even count the times anymore where the model (we use multiple of the frontier ones) has completely gone down the primrose path. I always make sure I make it my code, every line is reviewed and understood, maybe I rewrite the AI output here and there, I understand the tests and testing strategy, etc, etc.

So I wonder where this is all going. We are past "vibe" coding already, and so far monetization of AI has been "patchy". On top of that local AI is becoming more and more viable.

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