Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

app.dealroom.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 398 posts

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#171

Post by SR2Z »

throw1234567891 wrote: post #161
inejge wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s been established that LLM-generated code is not copyrighted If that's a reference to Thaler v. Perlmutter, the only thing that's been established is that an LLM can't be considered an author under the Copyright Act, only a human being can. It says nothing about the consequences of a human claiming authorship of LLM-generated code, which would be relevant here.

You lay out my words in different order and claim I’m not correct.

No, your claim is "LLM generated code is not copyrighted." His claim is "LLM generated code is eligible for copyright."

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#172

Post by panzi »

semiquaver wrote: post #120
throw1234567891 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been established that LLM-generated code is not copyrighted so I can fully understand the company living from copyrighted data to not accept LLM-generated contributions.

This is a false narrative based on a (IMO often intentional) misunderstanding. It has by no means been established by any court that LLM-generated code is not copyrightable. Thaler v. Perlmutter stands for a much narrower proposition and at any rate is not binding nationally, SCOTUS having denied certiorari.

Also it's a different story intranationally for those of us who live in countries with much more restrictive/no fair use. Are you geolocking your software to the USA?

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#173

Post by burnte »

pmkary wrote: post #137
burnte wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flaw in the analogy is that oracle is made of people. It's not a lawnmower, it's a group of people with human motivations and human thoughts. It's true they don't HATE people, but it's also true they absolutely have no conscience in negotiations and have zero concern about relationships.

Oh you fell into the trap... Just don't anthropomorphize Oracle...

I'm not, I'm anthropomorphizing people.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#174

Post by SR2Z »

ethin wrote: post #151
semiquaver wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false narrative based on a (IMO often intentional) misunderstanding. It has by no means been established by any court that LLM-generated code is not copyrightable. Thaler v. Perlmutter stands for a much narrower proposition and at any rate is not binding nationally, SCOTUS having denied certiorari.

This is not necessarily true. While no court has explicitly come out and said that copyright does not apply to AI-generated works of authorship, the US copyright office has[0]: > Based on an analysis of copyright law and policy, informed by the many thoughtful comments in response to our NOI, the Office makes the following conclusions and recommendations: > • Questions of copyrightability and AI can be resolved pursu…

The copyright office does not determine the standards for copyright. They are an advisory and notary organization.

Only Congress and the courts do. Copyright exists from the moment a work is created, and does not need to be registered with the copyright office.

The law isn't that complicated; if a work was created with a human being with intent, it's probably eligible for copyright protections.

As long as you can convince a court that you did this, the tools you used are not relevant. The vast majority of LLM art falls in this bucket.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#175

Post by burnte »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #136
burnte wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flaw in the analogy is that oracle is made of people. It's not a lawnmower, it's a group of people with human motivations and human thoughts. It's true they don't HATE people, but it's also true they absolutely have no conscience in negotiations and have zero concern about relationships.

How many bureaucracies in history have behaved in deeply misanthropic ways, especially when led by misanthropic leaders? Don't underestimate the power of the desire to keep one's job to cause a large organization to behave towards its own self-perpetuation despite the moral lines that must be crossed by individuals to do so.

> How many bureaucracies in history have behaved in deeply misanthropic ways, especially when led by misanthropic leaders?

Lots!

> Don't underestimate the power of the desire to keep one's job to cause a large organization to behave towards its own self-perpetuation despite the moral lines that must be crossed by individuals to do so.

I don't. I don't put anything past people.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#177

Post by cansofgrease »

hobo123 wrote: post #129
TimTheTinker wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn - you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' - lawnmower doesn't give a * about you, the lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmo…

What about a guy with a lawnmower intentionally chopping off your foot? And what about a CEO making decisions on behalf of the corporate entity called Oracle?

There is no guy, only the lawnmower, mowing lawns. Sometimes it chops off feet.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#178

Post by philipov »

cansofgrease wrote: post #177
hobo123 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a guy with a lawnmower intentionally chopping off your foot? And what about a CEO making decisions on behalf of the corporate entity called Oracle?

There is no guy, only the lawnmower, mowing lawns. Sometimes it chops off feet.

It doesn't matter if the lawnmower is chopping off feat intentionally or not. If it's presenting a public hazard, it should be stopped. Even though the ocean couldn't care less it doesn't prevent us from building breakwalls. And Larry Ellison isn't unstoppable as the ocean.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#180

Post by aaronharnly »

burnte wrote: post #130
TimTheTinker wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn - you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' - lawnmower doesn't give a * about you, the lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmo…

The flaw in the analogy is that oracle is made of people. It's not a lawnmower, it's a group of people with human motivations and human thoughts. It's true they don't HATE people, but it's also true they absolutely have no conscience in negotiations and have zero concern about relationships.

The original was not even about Oracle the corporation, it was about understanding the psychology of Larry Ellison specifically.
Post reply on HN