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Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

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Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#221

Post by king_crimson »

shevy-java wrote: post #199
philipov wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if the lawnmower is chopping off feat intentionally or not. If it's presenting a public hazard, it should be stopped. Even though the ocean couldn't care less it doesn't prevent us from building breakwalls. And Larry Ellison isn't unstoppable as the ocean.

This seems to make Larry more harmless. A lawnmower does not think. Larry thinks, so it seems to white-wash Larry here. It's more like that movie with Stephen King where the cars and other machines turn actively evil. Hilarious movie too, not great but hilarious.

Never thought to hear someone here mention Maximum Overdrive. Indeed a hilarious movie and the only movie for which AC/DC ever recorded an (instrumental) soundtrack.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#222

Post by malux85 »

skinfaxi wrote: post #188
TimTheTinker wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn - you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' - lawnmower doesn't give a * about you, the lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmo…

Who does this metaphor serve? To me it seems to try to legitimize the actions as a force of nature.

The lawn mower is operating within the laws that constraints it (laws of physics in this case) and not a greater sense of morality.

Lessons:

- The only way to constrain what the lawnmower does, is make sure what do desire is enforced by law (physics)

- A reminder, the lawnmower will chop your hand off and think nothing of it

- The lawnmower is not "evil" but if the laws that constrain it allow for evil behavior, it may do "evil" things.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#223

Post by cheeze »

midnightbobarun wrote: post #7

So contributions to OpenJDK have to be hand-written, while internally, Oracle uses AI generated code... I guess the logic is that employees who use AI generated code (theoretically) review their code better? The whole thing still seems a little strange.

I don't know. I think it makes sense to have a policy like this.

I haven't written a line of code myself in 6 months, but the point is that _you shouldn't be able to tell_

What I tell people at work: Using AI is good. AI can help you do things that you otherwise wouldn't have. It shouldn't be a crutch for thinking.

In that sense, people shouldn't be able to tell that you're using AI unless the tell is that it's _higher quality_ than if you had implemented it by hand.

A good example here is a well-written document that has a _ton_ of deep research behind it. Or code that has extensive tests that would have taken too long to write by hand for the task at hand.

It's bad when it's just "do this thing and post a PR" but I write my code with AI, look at it as a reviewer, offer suggestions, put those into my steering if needed, and I refine it. The way I see it, I'm the first reviewer on everything now before passing it off to another human for review.

There have been points where having AI rewrite something was slower than me doing it, but I'm already in the harness. The cost of waiting is almost zero. What stops me from contributing to the JVM using AI written code that I understand and spent time manicuring? Can a human really tell that it's AI written?

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#225

Post by cindyllm »

Alive-in-2025 wrote: post #218
dan_q wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same problems that bedevil AI-written PRs here bedevil AI-written PRs at my place of work. >I'm sure it'll get better eventually, maybe Why would it get better?

We'll just get used to it and the problems won't seem so bad, even if they are. To bring it all back, it's just like using oracle software in your enterprise, after a while you forget how awful it is to work with them.

[dead]

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#226

Post by ghaff »

prmoustache wrote: post #217
ghaff wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hilarious. Why do you think ZFS isn't more broadly adopted in Linux?

You should send your sarcasm detector for revision.

Given enough ignorant comments it can be hard to tell what is satire and what is not.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#227

Post by coliveira »

cansofgrease wrote: post #177
hobo123 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a guy with a lawnmower intentionally chopping off your foot? And what about a CEO making decisions on behalf of the corporate entity called Oracle?

There is no guy, only the lawnmower, mowing lawns. Sometimes it chops off feet.

A lawnmower doesn't decide to do something bad by itself. The case with L.E. is much more sinister.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#228

Post by senderista »

runjake wrote: post #219
skinfaxi wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who does this metaphor serve? To me it seems to try to legitimize the actions as a force of nature.

It's a twist on the Scorpion and the Frog story. In other words, Larry Ellison is going to do what Larry is going to do, and there's no use wondering why. Usually, that's to make money and sue people, at any expense. It's in his nature. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog

That’s an interesting story to bring up in this context, because I have always wondered how a fundamentally customer-hostile business like Oracle could be so successful. It really puts the lie to libertarian cliches about the invisible hand of capitalism that ends up being philanthropic in spite of itself.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#229

Post by ux266478 »

derdi wrote: post #216
ux266478 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nice thing about natural language is that nesting semantic layers is free and arbitrary, and far more tractable than in a formal grammar. Every natural language is like coherentist ω-order logic. Effectively, I don't have to write the 10k requirements. I only need to provide a sufficient metatheory that can be extrapolatable to those 10k requirements, and that can include embedded theory I did not write myself bu…

Not sure what this is a parody of, but it's hilarious, thank you. Keep it up!

I accept your concession. The humiliation of irrationally committed foundationalists has been a long time coming, so it's good you're trying to get ahead of the curve.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#230

Post by andrekandre »

jknoepfler wrote: post #158
tokioyoyo wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, do you use frontier AI dev tools on a daily basis professionally?

I manage several teams of developers who use them every day professionally and use them for personal projects privately. Just last week, at the prompting of said devs, we had a working agreement conversation about curtailing the use of AI in our codebases because of rapid erosion of our teams' ability to operate, update and maintain codebases that had started to spill over with slop. We have had multiple incidents of…

this matches my experience at $work with others as well...

when i brought this up with my manager they just said "you need to engineer a better harness" and "aren't you cultivating your agents.md file? thats probably your problem"

which is to say, apparently we're holding it wrong...

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