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US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

bbc.com

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Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#731

Post by bko »

saagarjha wrote: post #4

> Interior Secretary Doug Burgum said in a statement posted on X that Americans deserve an energy system built on common sense and not one dependent on "costly subsidies". I agree. This is why we are building offshore wind and not subsidizing fossil fuels, right?

I wish there was more context as to what the deal actually was instead of a highlight reel of late 2000s era right wing slogans like "drill baby drill".

It's framed as US government giving $1.2b to German company not to build something (which is weird in its own right). But after drilling into it (correct me if I'm wrong):

RWE is a large German utility

It paid $1.2b for development rights and invested a bunch of money.

The US passed policies that made it impossible to develop the plan.

So it's essentially a negotiated unwind of government-issued property/development rights. US changed the rules, made the lease ineffective and compensated the leasee. But the deal was that instead of RWE just taking the money they agreed to other development projects related to natural gas (better in my opinion).

You might disagree with the policies that made these wind farms impossible or whether the buy out of federal leased land is fair to one party or another. But I wish articles actually cared enough to describe the situation clearly.

Questions I would like mentioned in the article in place of Trumps rhetoric about "big ugly windmills" is details about the actual restrictions that made it impossible, history of it, impact, etc.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#732

Post by cmrdporcupine »

ghosty141 wrote: post #204
bsenftner wrote: post #63

The USA is governed by evil people, and the people of the nation are too stupid and expecting someone else to stop them. Plain as day light.

Not evil, just dumb.

Dismissing Trump and his cohorts as merely "dumb" is how we got allllll the way to 2026 from 2016.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#733

Post by ncr100 »

zmmmmm wrote: post #310

I read up recently on the history of the fall of the roman empire and it was fascinating how eerily similar it was to the current state of the US. Overwhelmed by corruption and wars they make stupider and stupider decisions on ever larger scales, ever more frequently. And the population grows ever more cynical, eventually opting for authoritarianism before eventually the center can't hold any more and it all collapse…

That redux of "Rise and Fall of Roman Empire" suggests a policy shift, and a media shift, for USA and globally.

* Smart Decisions can be celebrated

* Stupid Decisions can be "5-whys" root-cause analyzed

Shaming, and all that, can be left aside. And instead focusing on the possible Wins.

A success-oriented approach, of applauding and ranking The Most Smart Policies, could be a way forward. It's innately motivating.

Democratic Decline is real. Voter apathy is real. Gaslighting by power-focused politicians is real, and lack of a "service" mindset by those politicians, too. This is compelling stuff, obsessing over doom, and it's demotivating.

Celebrating The Most Smart policies is something I enjoy. E.g. on YouTube there is a Good News channel which lists "top 10 good pro-environmental / pro-social actions":

- https://www.youtube.com/@itsSamBentley

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#734

Post by hnra »

raphinou wrote: post #499
zmmmmm wrote: post #310

I read up recently on the history of the fall of the roman empire and it was fascinating how eerily similar it was to the current state of the US. Overwhelmed by corruption and wars they make stupider and stupider decisions on ever larger scales, ever more frequently. And the population grows ever more cynical, eventually opting for authoritarianism before eventually the center can't hold any more and it all collapse…

Was it a book you read? In interested.

Not OP but the book ”The storm before the storm” covers what sets in motion the fall of the republic. I think the foreword or opening chapter notes the similarities with the state of the US (Trumps first presidency at the time of writing).

The author is the podcast host of ”History of Rome”, which is also great, and he does the audiobook narration perfectly.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#735

Post by Danox »

arethuza wrote: post #604
pavlov wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what about empires that actually survived or adapted" — which ones exactly? Empires are pathological developments of nations. They don't tend to survive all that long.

Didn't the Roman Empire last nearly 1,500 years in one form or another?

No 27 BC – AD 476 the Roman Empire the one that everyone thinks about at maximum strength lasted 503 years basically Augustus Caesar to AD 476. The eastern empire was but a shadow of the Roman empire ruled from Rome.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#736

Post by hamdingers »

pkulak wrote: post #560
bluGill wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly all of those are forests that are supposed to burn every year or two. Check with a forester knowledgeable in your specific area because there is no universal truth here. However the generalization that all forests in North America need to burn regularly for good health is true even though there are exceptions.

You’re arguing against someone who said “there should never be forrest fires”, but that person doesn’t exist.

Not only do those people exist, they have successfully passed policy in California and elsewhere hamstringing their ability to do prescribed burns.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#737

Post by hnra »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #662
zmmmmm wrote: post #310

I read up recently on the history of the fall of the roman empire and it was fascinating how eerily similar it was to the current state of the US. Overwhelmed by corruption and wars they make stupider and stupider decisions on ever larger scales, ever more frequently. And the population grows ever more cynical, eventually opting for authoritarianism before eventually the center can't hold any more and it all collapse…

I mean no disrespect, but if you're seeing a deep parallel between the Roman Empire's final days and what's going on in the US today, I would say you need to study Roman history more. It was in deep chaos that most people in the world today can't even imagine. The Empire was relentlessly invaded by tribes like the Visigoths and the Vandals, and they even sacked Rome multiple times in the 400s CE. There was a huge amo…

A better parallel is the fall of the republic with the rise of strong men using populism and power to dismantle its form of democracy in favor of authoritarianism.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#738

Post by tencentshill »

dzonga wrote: post #613

everyone on this board - is now aware the US gvt is working against your interest unless you're sama & crew. invest in your own solar, or other forms of renewable energy - get an ev.

Energy independence still remains a rich mans hobby. Neighborhood sized micro-grids are the future.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#739

Post by Henchman21 »

whack wrote: post #370
zmmmmm wrote: post #310

I read up recently on the history of the fall of the roman empire and it was fascinating how eerily similar it was to the current state of the US. Overwhelmed by corruption and wars they make stupider and stupider decisions on ever larger scales, ever more frequently. And the population grows ever more cynical, eventually opting for authoritarianism before eventually the center can't hold any more and it all collapse…

Never attribute to stupidity what can be attributed to self-interest. It sure looks stupid when you look at America or the Roman Empire as a whole. But when you look at the specific individuals doing these "stupid" things, and the individuals enabling them, it is perfectly aligned with their own best interests.

So we're dying to selfishness?

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#740

Post by ShinyLeftPad »

epihelix wrote: post #636
saagarjha wrote: post #4

> Interior Secretary Doug Burgum said in a statement posted on X that Americans deserve an energy system built on common sense and not one dependent on "costly subsidies". I agree. This is why we are building offshore wind and not subsidizing fossil fuels, right?

I know it's not what you wanted to start here with this comment. But the silly, tangential, petty bickering in this thread goes a very long way to explain our failure to act to stop the catastrophe we've known was coming since the 80s.

To me it's a reasonable point. We tend to forget that subsidies go both ways. Maybe it's a bit too sarcastic but that's about it
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