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US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

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Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#621
post #51

> Interior Secretary Doug Burgum said in a statement posted on X that Americans deserve an energy system built on common sense and not one dependent on "costly subsidies". I agree. This is why we are building offshore wind and not subsidizing fossil fuels, right?

All kinds of power generation are typically heavily subdized in some way. I do not think this "common sense" strategy exists.

- calculate in all building cost, side cost, post-lifetime cost, accident risk cost etc. i.e. "all cost"

- calculate expected total produced electricity which can be used

- divide one by another

- if one if majorly cheaper and chose it then that is the "common sense" strategy of choosing what works best

yes the "all cost" part is tricky to estimate.

yes you don't choose a "single technology and only use it", resilience always works best with redundancy and diversity.

still you can run the number, you can estimate error bars, and sometimes this gives already clear answers. Like a technology being quite expensive even if you lose the lowest (unrealistic cheap) bar for all costs? Then that is a bad technology and it doesn't matter that you have very wide error bars as you are already looking at the optimal choice.

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EDIT: Me going of on a tangent, maybe ignore :/

Some technologies complement each other well (like most like solar + wind + some gravity storage, as both can have uneven output, but (at live where I live) extremely windy days are often reduced sunny and extremely sunny days often not so windy, and gravity storage can handle "dunkelflauten" sufficiently (and is has already been build and is in use(!), not some hypothetical tech like some people pretend it is)).

But also some technology works against each other, e.g. non _fully_ subsidized nuclear sells a roughly constant power output at a constant (and quite high! if not highly subsidized) cost. But if other electricity can "sometimes" produce supper cheap electricity for some hours, days or even weeks then nuclear can not compete _at all_ during this times, makes losses and need to increase the yearly average price to compensate. Which makes it even less competitive. Hence in a actual "dynamic/free" energy market nuclear makes no sense even if you ignore long term waste storage or risk for contaminating essential parts of your country risks. Still a _fully_ subsidized nuclear base power level might work if you can't generate enough electricity in average through other means. Still this IMHO makes it somewhat of a "only if there is no other solution, not competing on the free marked" choice, i.e. a bad choice you might have to do but might be able to fully avoid (e.g. by using hydro power).

Oh and please stop brown coal, especially low quality brown coal. In all categories of health damage, environmental damage, climate damage it has _horrible_ scores both during mining and usage even for modern versions with filters etc. Sure it looks cheap on paper, but it's maybe THE worst kind of power source there is. Especially if run on low quality coal and without modern filter technology. Brown coal should be a "never choose this no matter what" choice.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That leaves a lot of free energy sources untapped - especially hydro.

If you can set up a hydro/pump dam without wrecking the ecosystem and don't need handouts to function, I'm all for it.

If you can drill oil and gas without wrecking the ecosystem I'm all for it.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh that's not nearly the amount of fossil subsidies. Some say it's $31b/yr direct. If you factor in indirect costs like climate damage, health expenses, oil wars, etc, it's much higher. Renewables are much, much cheaper regardless of a little incentive, if there are any left. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/sep/09/fossil-f...

It’s kind of amazing and horrifying at the same time that a democratic country like the U.S. is doing all these shenanigans like blocking clean zero carbon energy, while a communist authoritarian country is massively moving towards clean energy. Based on what our media and our education system teaches us, one would have assumed that common sense and sound logic would prevail in a democracy, but rather what we see is…

Its because democracies werent and arent really democracies. But that aside. Corruption is rampant, the oil sector has politians in their pocket for a long long time and since the cold war, a counter narrative doesnt really put any weight in the scale. The billionaires arent afraid anymore.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#624
post #24

Insane. Over the last year, wind - mostly offshore - has generated more than 35% of electricity here. Gas is down to 27%. It's really, really good. And it looks cool.

The LNG plant is being built in Texas which are covered with turbines, and they absolutely do not look cool.

How about pumpjacks? Do you think they look cool? Texas is also covered in those, though much less than it used to be.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#625
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I do not know if the following is relevant for the Carolina Long Bay area, and while neither Republicans nor Democrats can be trusted, it is not without precedent for offshore wind turbine projects to be disallowed due to radar concerns. https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/11/11/why-swe... > Why Sweden nixed new wind farms for fear of missing Russian missiles > BERLIN — Sweden’s government this month…

Wind power is a purely commercial enterprise which only requires state support for permissions to build and permissions to connect to the grid. There is no issue about state support for manufacturing of equipment. Living here where this happens. They are stopping it for two reasons: First on a national level they want to concentrate on their renewed push towards building new nuclear power reactors, means wind has to…

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Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#626
post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a proportion of total energy use, the US is ahead of China in moving away from fossil fuels by about 5 full percentage points. Most of the "energy independence" that China has is just based on burning coal. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-mix?tab=stacked-di...

Wanna know a great way to lose a race? Check your rear view mirror and see how far ahead you are and then let off the gas. Or worse, start braking.

so we win the race by burning petrol /s

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Energy is at the core of everything we do. Make it more expensive, you immediately make some people go hungry, and then you also make everything else in the economy a tad more expensive, slowing things down, and as market readjusts and contracts, this makes even more people go hungry. There's a really strong incentive to keep energy generation cheap, because pretty much every social and political issue is dow…

Yes. "The economy is energy, energy is the economy". China understood this and is not just betting on both solar and nuclear like mad, they're also burning coal (so that the EU btw can cosplay being green, while offloading the production of many things it consumes to China). As a result energy prices in China are something like 7x cheaper than in Germany. Those with lots of energy saw their GDP growth in the 21st cen…

This is just another area where the Chinese, Japanese, Korean will move ahead and stay ahead? Is this what it means when you have more engineers in your government than lawyers? They seem to be open towards any good idea if it works they don’t dismiss it out of hand because some existing industry might have to compete against the new technology coming in.

Going into the future, multiple energy sources will power future civilizations, multiple battery technologies will store energy what is wrong with multiple solutions as long as you make provisions not to completely destroy the environment you live in.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Energy is at the core of everything we do. Make it more expensive, you immediately make some people go hungry, and then you also make everything else in the economy a tad more expensive, slowing things down, and as market readjusts and contracts, this makes even more people go hungry. There's a really strong incentive to keep energy generation cheap, because pretty much every social and political issue is dow…

Yes. "The economy is energy, energy is the economy". China understood this and is not just betting on both solar and nuclear like mad, they're also burning coal (so that the EU btw can cosplay being green, while offloading the production of many things it consumes to China). As a result energy prices in China are something like 7x cheaper than in Germany. Those with lots of energy saw their GDP growth in the 21st cen…

> As a result energy prices in China are something like 7x cheaper than in Germany.

Source?

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA's defence, the system that put these gangsters in charge also gives it a shot at changing course in a couple of years.

Trump 1 was so bad, people showed up in droves to vote for anything else. That's how we ended up with a dimensia president. Biden was so bad, people showed up in droves to vote for anything else. That's how we ended up in a war with Iran. Trump 2 is so bad, people will show up in droves to vote for anything else. The downward spiral continues.

Trump, not Biden, started the war with Iran.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#630
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it do it efficiently though?

It saves energy by making them feel warmer in the winter. If they overdo it and freeze to death, it saves even more energy.

It's an anti-freeze. Ask the people that survived the Titanic in the water :)
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